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keithcandler
Guest
Has anyone tried to develop accuracy with this case for benchrest competition?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
mwezell
Mike Ezell
I'm waiting on a reamer to do just that. I think the ideal powder will depend on what weight bullets you plan to shoot. I'm hoping that typical ppc powders will work well with light bullets..and as pablo said, 8208 or similar for bullets in the 80 grain class. I could've bought an off the shelf reamer from Kiff a while back, but chose to throat it so that I could shoot most 65-80 gr bullets.
The Grendel neck isn't as long as the ppc neck, so it's more critical about freebore dimensions. Still, the 65fb thru 80's should work with my reamer. I'm going with .070 freebore on mine and a .271 neck.
If you could bring it upon yourself to send my tuner, I'd loan you a reamer.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
I sent a bunch out Friday....not sure if yours was in that bunch or not. Please call me when you have a minute.
Littlecooner
New member
Are you guys using the Grendel brass to make your cases? I have been working on a batch of 220 Russian cases tonight and plan on trying them first instead of the Grendel brass ( I have both in hand). Waiting on my barrel to arrive and it will be a long range gun for the 105's. I need a toy to get me back into the benchrest again and decided to build something to play at 600 yards. I built a fat rat last year on a crazy whim ( I hate AR's) and it has been impressive, so now have a grinch with a 268 neck headed this way. I keep going up in powder at times using RL 15 and VV 540 and have a good node working with the VV 540 that is pushing the 105 Berger Hybrids almost 3000 FPS in a gas gun. I need to get some bullets ordered from Bart and did order some Vapor Trails last month. That looks like a long wait for the Vapor Trails. This case looking interesting, we will see if I can make it competitive.
Have you done any work with one yet? Results?
It or some variation is on my radar.
My brother is shooting a 6br in 12 twist now, and his 100 & 200yd groups are a real eye catcher, even out to 400yds they still look good.Similarly to Pablo's observations in the 6 grendel, 135 or 8208 seems to work in his br with the 80's.WD
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Why would you not use the Grendel brass? Seems like it would be the obvious choice for a Grendel based cartridge.
Littlecooner
New member
I bought 200 pieces of the Lapua 220 Russian brass when it first became available back in the mid '90's. I weight sorted all of those 200 and dropped them back in the supply bin. Due to eye problems, I quite competition 20 years ago. Never sold any of my equipment. I had my eyes operated on 10 years ago and now trying to ease back into the shooting. So, when I was faced with which brass to use a few weeks ago, I looked and have well over 100 pieces of that 220 Russian brass left, all nice weight sorted and then this crazy fat rat in a gas gun appears to be tough on brass, with scratches on it from cycling thru the magazine and extraction ( did i tell you I hate AR's). So, saving the Nosler and Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass to be eaten up in the gas gun and though this weight sorted original 220 Russian was a better product to attempt to make a competitive rifle for my venture back into campaigning a gun in competition. The underlying definition of us benchrest shooters is to experiment and push the envelope of trying something different. I got started in 1989, when all that was out there on the line was 98 % PPC cases, the other 2 % were shooting 6 BR ( and not winning). Really was not much experimenting going on, just buy a PPC, Leupold 36x and some T powder and go to a match. The only difference was makers of bullets and wind flags to shoot over. So, in my old age, thinking I will never be super competitive again, decided to do something different. The Golden Eagle Vortex arrived last month, it is on the Fat Rat and I love this scope. The barrel is going on the old Panda that has hid in the back of the safe for 19 years. Ordered a Brux barrel. Have hopes of developing a nice load with the VV 540 ( wish, wish). If I make it back to actually placing in the top half of some registered matches, I will have that personal feeling of pushing the experimental envelope for the first time, not following the masses. I have not weighted any of the Grendel brass but the batch I picked from the old stuff is labeled 109.2-109.3 grains and I though (without any research) that it might have a slight edge on power capacity over the Grendel brass. Think I will go weight some Grendel brass, now that you really question my decisions on brass selection. Is not bench rest fun? Always pushing the envelope.
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mwezell
Mike Ezell
I guess everything does have a reason. Myself, I prefer to keep things as simple and easy as possible, when that works. In my case, the Grendel brass allows for simply necking it down and turning the necks to my desired thickness...loading and shooting it, vs blowing out the shoulder on 220 or ppc brass to form what's already available.
There has been a lot of confusion as to what a Grendel is and I just wanted to make sure you're not in the pack that thinks it's a 6.5ppc. It's close...but the shoulder is .070" further forward. If you're aware of this and still choose to make it from Russian brass, go ahead. Let us know how it goes. I've been most happy with the quality of Lapua Grendel brass.
If this works this is a target from last weekend shooting what I call a Grump, which is a .020 long 6 Grendel the name is another name for a modified 6 grendel. To my knowledge, there is a Fat Rat, Grinch, Varmint Fat Rat, 40 AR Turbo and who knows what else. This chamber has a .269 neck and I'm using Lapua Grendel brass that is just necked down and neck turned to a loaded round that measures .2665. Groups are shot with Bart's 80 GN Dominators. Conditions were very windy from 4:30 to about 8 oclock. When the wind wasn't blowing the mirage was so heavy it was hard to see the target. I shot the groups quickly when the wind was letting up from 4:30 before it boiled. I'm sure a lot of the dispersion is wind and mirage related but nasty conditions are pretty normal around here. Plan on shooting it in a small match up north in a few weeks maybe it'll be nicer up there.
ballpowder
Member
Capacity
I'm curious, what is the capacity difference between Lapua Grendel brass and 6 BR brass? For some I'm sure it's a bolt face issue and the point is moot but for others is this a realistic comparison? I have always wondered how a 6br would do at 100-200 in with a 80gr bullet in a straight up fight with a PPC shooting 64gr Bullets or which ever is your favorite. 65gr Bullets in 22br in that fight as well for that Matter. I do have a 1-10" twist 22 BR barrel no turn that I wanted to test but got discouraged because it's no turn chamber which it wasn't supposed to be and never shot it. I guess it's time to give it a chance.
Tim
I'm curious, what is the capacity difference between Lapua Grendel brass and 6 BR brass? For some I'm sure it's a bolt face issue and the point is moot but for others is this a realistic comparison? I have always wondered how a 6br would do at 100-200 in with a 80gr bullet in a straight up fight with a PPC shooting 64gr Bullets or which ever is your favorite. 65gr Bullets in 22br in that fight as well for that Matter. I do have a 1-10" twist 22 BR barrel no turn that I wanted to test but got discouraged because it's no turn chamber which it wasn't supposed to be and never shot it. I guess it's time to give it a chance.
Tim
Shot the Grump Saturday and discovered I didn't have enough powder in it before. Got the load about a grain heavier of 8208XBR and it started shooting well. Shot a four group 100 yd agg at .224 which isn't anything to write home about but it's good for a rifle that's intended purpose is to get out when conditions are bad at 200 yds. It's kicky enough in a Light Varmint rifle that it's not much fun to shoot. This particular rifle demands to be shot free recoil and that's what screwed up the last group in that 4 group string, I tried to shoulder the rifle to avoid getting tagged by the scope. Need to figure it out, if my shoulder is a little too far from the buttstock the scope gets me, touching causes vertical, just right seems to be about a half inch back, hard to duplicate everytime shooting a string. Ideas to solve this will be gratefully received.
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xxper
Guest
Grendel reamer
Mike are you going to be chambering customers barrels when you get your reamer? I have a James Lederer 8 twist barrel ,how do you think it would work with your the 6 Grendel ?
Thank you Jim
Mike are you going to be chambering customers barrels when you get your reamer? I have a James Lederer 8 twist barrel ,how do you think it would work with your the 6 Grendel ?
Thank you Jim
Pablo - if you are convinced that your shoulder has an effect, get a false shoulder...something that will stop the rifle before the scope hits your face but allows some amount of recoil. I don't think shoulder contact is the problem but I don't know everything as I think I do.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Yes, very likely, Jim. I'll be my own first guinea pig and make sure any bugs are worked out..as well as get caught up with other work.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Won't be long now..
PT&G contacted me and let me know that my version of the 6 Grendel reamer will ship this week. Now, I'm getting excited about it! If I only had plenty of time to chamber up a barrel and wring it out good before the next match.
Oh well, won't be long, either way. Thinking about trying it out at a 100,200,300 yard IBS night shoot next month at Somerset, Ky. May even shoot a 30 at 100, then swap barrels. Lots to do before that time.
PT&G contacted me and let me know that my version of the 6 Grendel reamer will ship this week. Now, I'm getting excited about it! If I only had plenty of time to chamber up a barrel and wring it out good before the next match.
Oh well, won't be long, either way. Thinking about trying it out at a 100,200,300 yard IBS night shoot next month at Somerset, Ky. May even shoot a 30 at 100, then swap barrels. Lots to do before that time.
The Grench is a great cartridge with 80gr bullets for short range BR, no question . I have one and i like it. With this said, i have a 6mm Grendel reamer that is equally fantastic. I have chambered a couple 6mm Grendle barrels for friends that dont want to mess with blowing out brass. What we have found with benchmark powder, and the grench with its 40 degree shoulder is that the Grench doesnt hold enough more powder to make it really worth while. Chamber pressure with Benchmark seems to be the issue.
The grench, with benchmark we load 30.2 to 31.5 grains . This gives us our best accuracy and its not to hard on the brass. My buddy Rodney with his straight 6mm Grendel is also loading 31 grains of benchmark with killer accuracy and agging ability. I have loaded upwards of 32 grains in my Grench, but the primer pockets dont last long. At least not for me, with my lot of Benchmark. We shoot an 80Gr Flat base, were as a lot of the other fellas are shooting Barts 80gr BT. This is my in house experience, yours may vary?? Guys are winning with the Grench, so it is the real deal. I am just not convinced you need the extra case work to achieve great accuracy with the 80gr bullets. Of course some folks like 40 degree shoulders, and the extra case work isnt an issue. I myself can go either way. I usually dont mind blowing out brass. The standard 6mm Grendel is dam near equal if not dead equal is all i am getting at, with what we have found.
If you goal was to shoot a 105 i wouldnt have any information to share.
The grench, with benchmark we load 30.2 to 31.5 grains . This gives us our best accuracy and its not to hard on the brass. My buddy Rodney with his straight 6mm Grendel is also loading 31 grains of benchmark with killer accuracy and agging ability. I have loaded upwards of 32 grains in my Grench, but the primer pockets dont last long. At least not for me, with my lot of Benchmark. We shoot an 80Gr Flat base, were as a lot of the other fellas are shooting Barts 80gr BT. This is my in house experience, yours may vary?? Guys are winning with the Grench, so it is the real deal. I am just not convinced you need the extra case work to achieve great accuracy with the 80gr bullets. Of course some folks like 40 degree shoulders, and the extra case work isnt an issue. I myself can go either way. I usually dont mind blowing out brass. The standard 6mm Grendel is dam near equal if not dead equal is all i am getting at, with what we have found.
If you goal was to shoot a 105 i wouldnt have any information to share.
I had a 1-8 twist 6mm Grendel chambered for my LV two years ago and finally got to try it out at WWCCA Spring Tune-Up. I shoot the cartridge at 1000 yards occasionally so I used the same long throated reamer in this LV barrel. I decided that rather than shooting the same 103gr Vapor Trails or 105 Barts, I would shoot the 95 BIBs that a lot of guys recommended. The initial testing I did at my local range didn't give me much hope with N135 powder, but I dragged the barrel along anyway, determined to wring it out at 200 using similar loads to what I use at 1000, which is to say I tried Varget in the 30-32 grain range.
The conditions at 200 were tricky, but not unmanageable. You can see in the match report that I finished dead last with an agg much larger than I probably would've shot with a PPC. I haven't given up on the cartridge yet. I have a jug of N140 that I'm willing to try with this barrel as well as a 10 twist barrel on it's way. I'm also contemplating doing a shorter throat reamer and 12 twist barrel to accommodate the 80gr Dominators that seem to be, uh, dominating. I should add that I didn't find the recoil to be bad with the 95s, so I might give the 103/105 bullets a shot in the 8 twist before moving too far forward with another project.
I don't know if the extra capacity and shoulder angle of the Grinch, etc gives a big advantage. If the twist rate just isn't right for those bullets, powder, throat, etc... or just a crap barrel. I'll play with it some more when I have time, which won't be until after the Super Shoot.
The conditions at 200 were tricky, but not unmanageable. You can see in the match report that I finished dead last with an agg much larger than I probably would've shot with a PPC. I haven't given up on the cartridge yet. I have a jug of N140 that I'm willing to try with this barrel as well as a 10 twist barrel on it's way. I'm also contemplating doing a shorter throat reamer and 12 twist barrel to accommodate the 80gr Dominators that seem to be, uh, dominating. I should add that I didn't find the recoil to be bad with the 95s, so I might give the 103/105 bullets a shot in the 8 twist before moving too far forward with another project.
I don't know if the extra capacity and shoulder angle of the Grinch, etc gives a big advantage. If the twist rate just isn't right for those bullets, powder, throat, etc... or just a crap barrel. I'll play with it some more when I have time, which won't be until after the Super Shoot.