R
R.DesJardin
Guest
Does anyone current shoot a .338BR?
If so please contact me I have a few questions and such.
If so please contact me I have a few questions and such.
P
Pete in Surry
Guest
I don't but - -
It would be nice to find a source of good 115g bullets for that caliber, I must say. I would be the first on my block to own one.
It would be nice to find a source of good 115g bullets for that caliber, I must say. I would be the first on my block to own one.
P
Pete in Surry
Guest
There is the issue of weight
I , for one , don't want to shoot a rifle that has any more recoil than a full 308 with a 118 g bullet. I think making a 40 weigh less than 120g might be a challenge.
I , for one , don't want to shoot a rifle that has any more recoil than a full 308 with a 118 g bullet. I think making a 40 weigh less than 120g might be a challenge.
R
R.DesJardin
Guest
bullets
Maybe a 145gr bullet?
Maybe a 145gr bullet?
L
larry kramer
Guest
444 Marlin has 1:38 Twist
The .430 diameter 444 Marlin has very slow twist, 1:38 (will not disturb the bags) maybe if it was in a short case with a light bullet....maybe sabots w/a smaller, higher BC bullet? (like 115 dtac) German tanks are shooting approx. 1/4 MOA (20X20 cm, 8"targets) at 3000 meters now using discarding sabot darts! They (all tankers) have made great advances to be taken advantage of......
The .430 diameter 444 Marlin has very slow twist, 1:38 (will not disturb the bags) maybe if it was in a short case with a light bullet....maybe sabots w/a smaller, higher BC bullet? (like 115 dtac) German tanks are shooting approx. 1/4 MOA (20X20 cm, 8"targets) at 3000 meters now using discarding sabot darts! They (all tankers) have made great advances to be taken advantage of......
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jackie schmidt
New member
Here was one attempt.
Back about 6 or 7 years ago, the late Eric Klemetich tried a "44 BR", (actually using .429 bullets).
This was an all out effort. He built a niice Panda based Rifle, I think he used a 1-18 twist Krieger barrel in HV taper.The bullets he chose were the Sierra 220 grn FPJ Match.
Since there was practically no shouder to head space one, he had the reame rground to headsp[ace on the case moth, like the 45ACP.
Everything looked great, the Rifle was a real beauty, and the cases looked good.
The capacity was actually enough to qualify for HBR.
The only real problem that Eric ran into was the thing just would not shoot. I think he managed some 1.5 inch groups at 100, most were 2 inch+.
I think he tried some other bullets, the powder was either 296 or 4227.
He gave up on it.........jackie
Back about 6 or 7 years ago, the late Eric Klemetich tried a "44 BR", (actually using .429 bullets).
This was an all out effort. He built a niice Panda based Rifle, I think he used a 1-18 twist Krieger barrel in HV taper.The bullets he chose were the Sierra 220 grn FPJ Match.
Since there was practically no shouder to head space one, he had the reame rground to headsp[ace on the case moth, like the 45ACP.
Everything looked great, the Rifle was a real beauty, and the cases looked good.
The capacity was actually enough to qualify for HBR.
The only real problem that Eric ran into was the thing just would not shoot. I think he managed some 1.5 inch groups at 100, most were 2 inch+.
I think he tried some other bullets, the powder was either 296 or 4227.
He gave up on it.........jackie
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It is a region
that hasn't been explored much. I would suspect a longer bearing surface would be needed but don't know. There is no logical reason the size can not be made to be accurate but it will take some work. The one thing that is a must is a round that won't kill on the shootres end. That may mean a lighter core in the bullet.
that hasn't been explored much. I would suspect a longer bearing surface would be needed but don't know. There is no logical reason the size can not be made to be accurate but it will take some work. The one thing that is a must is a round that won't kill on the shootres end. That may mean a lighter core in the bullet.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Why?
We all fought the battel to get the 30 to be "Respectable". Why limit it? The PPC'ers said the same about their favorite. We would be hypocrits if we called for a limit now!
We all fought the battel to get the 30 to be "Respectable". Why limit it? The PPC'ers said the same about their favorite. We would be hypocrits if we called for a limit now!
D
david dumas
Guest
real men don't worry about recoil,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lets go ahead to a 500 nitro express BR
Dave Short
New member
Actually Pete, it wasn't so much wanting to keep the "favorite" PPC, it is more about wanting to shoot the target with the same diameter bullet.......since we score from the edge of the hole.
I agree with the "why limit it?" reasoning.......the more shooters at or near the top of the pile at 100 yards the merrier. As it is, we sometimes end up with 3 to 5 people involved in the use Creedmore rule to determine the "Winner", and 8 or more for the top couple of places........why not go for 10 or 15?
Pete......you know I couldn't resist this one.
-Dave-
B
BJS6
Guest
It seems totally daft to shoot something as precise as a benchrest rifle and have the size of the hole effect the outcome !!
It boils down to bullet jackets.
Given the availablity of extremely high quality jackets in the lengths we need to make a well balanced finished bullet length for the case size used, there's no reason at all that a .338 wouldn't shoot. Barrel makers know how to make great barrels and there are all sorts of powders that would work.
My one concern would be using the BR case. Comparing the expansion ratios between the 6PPC and the 30BR, my belief is that with the BR case we are almost at the minimum case capacity to work with the .925 and 1.00 jacketed bullets. We'll probably learn a bit more about that this season as more 30PPC's show up and are worked with. Most of those are using the .925's.
Plugging in the volume of a .308 barrel @22" with a case volume of 40.5 (typical fired 30BR case) finds that a case with around 45.0 of water using a .338 bullet would compare favorably to the 30BR figures.
The 6.5X47 Lapua case looks like a likely suspect. -Al
Given the availablity of extremely high quality jackets in the lengths we need to make a well balanced finished bullet length for the case size used, there's no reason at all that a .338 wouldn't shoot. Barrel makers know how to make great barrels and there are all sorts of powders that would work.
My one concern would be using the BR case. Comparing the expansion ratios between the 6PPC and the 30BR, my belief is that with the BR case we are almost at the minimum case capacity to work with the .925 and 1.00 jacketed bullets. We'll probably learn a bit more about that this season as more 30PPC's show up and are worked with. Most of those are using the .925's.
Plugging in the volume of a .308 barrel @22" with a case volume of 40.5 (typical fired 30BR case) finds that a case with around 45.0 of water using a .338 bullet would compare favorably to the 30BR figures.
The 6.5X47 Lapua case looks like a likely suspect.
-Al
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
Actually Pete, it wasn't so much wanting to keep the "favorite" PPC, it is more about wanting to shoot the target with the same diameter bullet.......since we score from the edge of the hole.
I agree with the "why limit it?" reasoning.......the more shooters at or near the top of the pile at 100 yards the merrier. As it is, we sometimes end up with 3 to 5 people involved in the use Creedmore rule to determine the "Winner", and 8 or more for the top couple of places........why not go for 10 or 15?
Pete......you know I couldn't resist this one.
-Dave-
It has been quite a few years since one or a small number of shooters have dominated VFS. I think that to be a good thing. It ain't like any of us make any money @ this! As I recall, a couple of Winter Meetings ago Jim Borden asked " What can we do to spread the winning around"? Looks like it happened, to some degree.
That being said, I fully support a 6 MM LV class. If that is what a large number of people want, let them have it. I don't think it an accuracy question, however. I think it an ability question, still. I also think the Reticle scoring device will lower the scores some.
I'm rambling here. I need sleep. Nite Dave.
So I can learn...
to shoot a .30 before I have to take out another bank loan to build another rifle!
to shoot a .30 before I have to take out another bank loan to build another rifle!
R. G. Robinett
New member
Interesting thread, Rory!
Here's a calculation for what it would take to make a .338 "work" - assuming of course, BR quality jackets, featuring walls with 0.0003" [or <] TIR, which currently, we do not have . . .
Using a 1.00" long jacket, and calculating for a tangent, eight caliber ogive, with a 0.050" meplat diameter (possibly too small for the real world ejection from the point-up die - but, maybe not) would produce a bullet weighing about 148 -150 Gr., with a BC close to .38 -not bad for a stubby little fellow! The "ideal" twist (1.5 Sg) would be 1:21.9 inches - that's correct: one turn in 22 inches! This would be about as short a .338" diameter bullet as practical. However, the weight ("fill") could probably be fudged down to the 135 Gr. area . . .
As with the thirty caliber, compared to smaller bullets, RECOIL would become more of an issue . . . but, with the "right stuff" (components), it would probably perform quite well. The biggest hurdle would be a reliable source for BR quality jackets. eek:
Rory - are you guys going to make - and supply - the jackets? RG
Does anyone current shoot a .338BR?
If so please contact me I have a few questions and such.
Here's a calculation for what it would take to make a .338 "work" - assuming of course, BR quality jackets, featuring walls with 0.0003" [or <] TIR, which currently, we do not have . . .
Using a 1.00" long jacket, and calculating for a tangent, eight caliber ogive, with a 0.050" meplat diameter (possibly too small for the real world ejection from the point-up die - but, maybe not) would produce a bullet weighing about 148 -150 Gr., with a BC close to .38 -not bad for a stubby little fellow!
The "ideal" twist (1.5 Sg) would be 1:21.9 inches - that's correct: one turn in 22 inches! This would be about as short a .338" diameter bullet as practical. However, the weight ("fill") could probably be fudged down to the 135 Gr. area . . . As with the thirty caliber, compared to smaller bullets, RECOIL would become more of an issue . . . but, with the "right stuff" (components), it would probably perform quite well. The biggest hurdle would be a reliable source for BR quality jackets. eek:
Rory - are you guys going to make - and supply - the jackets?
RG
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R
R.DesJardin
Guest
Bullets
R.G.
Did you sneek a look?????? If I could only get someone to hand swage some in their spare time.
I was thinking along the same lines of twist rate, but will probably order a 20.
R.G.
Did you sneek a look?????? If I could only get someone to hand swage some in their spare time.
I was thinking along the same lines of twist rate, but will probably order a 20.
F
Frank Green
Guest
Maybe I'm off the wall on this but asking the question of a .338BR? Why not? If I could get someone to make me some bullets with out breaking the bank I could use some good match quality bullets for my 8kurz also known as 7.92x33mm. Germans originally used this round in the WWII assault rifle. Standard load was 125gr. bullet. FMJBT bullet.
Original barrels we're a 1-9.45 twist. I know it's way to fast for what is needed etc..If I we're to do one I would go much slower. 1-14 to1-17 range depending on what I could get for bullets.
I've built a couple of rifles for guys who wanted to shoot this round mostly for history reasons etc....I've shot it enough and it shoots really well but the only bullet really available is the 125gr. Hornady soft point. I've made a pressure test barrel and have load data for a half a dozen different powders etc....know what the pressures run at etc....
I was taking 7mmBR Rem. cases and running them into a 8kurz die and the only thing I had to do was trim them to the shorter length for the original chambered guns. (I had an original MP43 reg. full auto at one time). Back to the case length. There is nothing saying we can't leave the necks longer.
Hey Randy. Could you make me some bullets with out breaking the bank. I will make a couple of barrels!
Talk to you all later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
262-649-1574
Original barrels we're a 1-9.45 twist. I know it's way to fast for what is needed etc..If I we're to do one I would go much slower. 1-14 to1-17 range depending on what I could get for bullets.
I've built a couple of rifles for guys who wanted to shoot this round mostly for history reasons etc....I've shot it enough and it shoots really well but the only bullet really available is the 125gr. Hornady soft point. I've made a pressure test barrel and have load data for a half a dozen different powders etc....know what the pressures run at etc....
I was taking 7mmBR Rem. cases and running them into a 8kurz die and the only thing I had to do was trim them to the shorter length for the original chambered guns. (I had an original MP43 reg. full auto at one time). Back to the case length. There is nothing saying we can't leave the necks longer.
Hey Randy. Could you make me some bullets with out breaking the bank. I will make a couple of barrels!
Talk to you all later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
262-649-1574
jackie schmidt
New member
Innovations
As we all know, it wasn't that long ago when a few enterprising shooters with a bit of "Gray Matter" between the ears looked at the 30 caliber, and that 6BR case, and said, "you know, if we could make some short 30 caliber bullets at about 118 grn, and use a ultra slow twist, (17-18), these things just might shoot at the same accuracy level as anything in existance".
A lot of purist said then that it was voo-doo, but these ole boys had the math on their side, and what evolved is what we have now, a short small capacity 30 caliber that is very manageble at the bench, and will knock that dot right out of the center of that target.
These same guys just might take a look at a even larger caliber, figure out a way to make it work in The Benchrest Arena, and repeat the senario all over again.
The "purist" will once again say it's all voo-doo, but there is nothing "sacred" about the 30 caliber, just like there was nothing sacred about the 6mm, or the 22. With the right components, (ie, great jackets, a great set of bullet dies, great barrels, and the guys that know how to make this stuff work), there is probably no reason why a larger caliber has the potential to shoot at the same accuracy level as anything we shoot at this time.
I doubt a 338 with 125's in a 13.5 pound Rifle would hit you any harder than a 30BR in a 10.5 pounder. The 1-22 twist would take care of the torque.
If it did work, shooters would have to make the decision if that extra .030 in bullet diameter would be worth it. But if it did shoot just as accurate, and was manageble, then it would soon be a no-brainer.........jackie
As we all know, it wasn't that long ago when a few enterprising shooters with a bit of "Gray Matter" between the ears looked at the 30 caliber, and that 6BR case, and said, "you know, if we could make some short 30 caliber bullets at about 118 grn, and use a ultra slow twist, (17-18), these things just might shoot at the same accuracy level as anything in existance".
A lot of purist said then that it was voo-doo, but these ole boys had the math on their side, and what evolved is what we have now, a short small capacity 30 caliber that is very manageble at the bench, and will knock that dot right out of the center of that target.
These same guys just might take a look at a even larger caliber, figure out a way to make it work in The Benchrest Arena, and repeat the senario all over again.
The "purist" will once again say it's all voo-doo, but there is nothing "sacred" about the 30 caliber, just like there was nothing sacred about the 6mm, or the 22. With the right components, (ie, great jackets, a great set of bullet dies, great barrels, and the guys that know how to make this stuff work), there is probably no reason why a larger caliber has the potential to shoot at the same accuracy level as anything we shoot at this time.
I doubt a 338 with 125's in a 13.5 pound Rifle would hit you any harder than a 30BR in a 10.5 pounder. The 1-22 twist would take care of the torque.
If it did work, shooters would have to make the decision if that extra .030 in bullet diameter would be worth it. But if it did shoot just as accurate, and was manageble, then it would soon be a no-brainer.........jackie