330 BRAR BR Wildcat Idea

mike in co said:
ok a 338 is 17% more area than a 308....area counts in score.
why not a 500...cause there is a current limit of 40 cal in short range br.

case is too big and no bullet of br quality.

so what is your intention for this round ???

remember this is the short range br forum

mike in co
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Mike,
The area doesn't matter, all you have to do is touch the line, which only depends on bullet diameter.

IBS Score has no limits on bullet diameter, unless they just changed it for 2010.

What makes the case too big if it is shortened to hold say around 35 grains of powder, same as the BR?

I would like to hear what the 50 BMG shooters have to say about bullet quality. A 2" group at 1000 yd is nothing to sneeze at, nor is a sub 6" agg. What will they do at 100 and 200 yd?

Cheers,
Keith
 
boom stick said:
I am trying to think outside the box.
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Good on you for doing so. It makes for an interesting discussion if nothing else.

boom stick said:
Maybe a 375 Win and a 115 grain high BC aluminum bullets could be an interesting option.
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There is no free lunch when it comes to BC, which controls wind drift. Higher bullet density increases BC. Aluminum goes in the wrong direction. Long slender shapes increase BC, which means heavier bullets. BC isn't critical in short range BR, but I don't think you want a BC worse than the current 112-118 gr 30 cal bullets. Wind drift is a difficult enough problem at 200 already.

Cheers,
Keith
 
jackie schmidt said:
I think all of you shooters who are fantasizing...
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You could be right, but remember that the 510 only has to agg 66% as good as the 308 to still hit the mark. So are the 510 bullets 66% as good in inherent accuracy?

In the wind, the 510 will drift half as much as the 308 and, therefore, be twice as forgiving of flag-reading errors. (And I make a lot of errors.) That is what may be most attractive about this idea.

Cheers,
Keith
 
mks said:
Mike,
The area doesn't matter, all you have to do is touch the line, which only depends on bullet diameter.

IBS Score has no limits on bullet diameter, unless they just changed it for 2010.

What makes the case too big if it is shortened to hold say around 35 grains of powder, same as the BR?

I would like to hear what the 50 BMG shooters have to say about bullet quality. A 2" group at 1000 yd is nothing to sneeze at, nor is a sub 6" agg. What will they do at 100 and 200 yd?

Cheers,
Keith
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duhhhh.....it is the area that makes the hole.........always two ways if looking at it........

lol.....lets see a 50 in a 10.5 lb gun......and 25 plus shots...

you are in never never land
 
mike in co said:
duhhhh.....it is the area that makes the hole.........always two ways if looking at it........

lol.....lets see a 50 in a 10.5 lb gun......and 25 plus shots...

you are in never never land
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Mike,
The formula for calculating the maximum group size to score X's is: bullet diameter + dot diameter = group size. There is no area in it.

The recoil of the subsonic 510 (1836 ftlb) is less than a 30BR (2198 ftlb), whether you put them in 10.5 lb guns or 13.5 lb, which is the more common choice for IBS score.

Still, this could be a bad idea if the bullet/load combination is worse than 66% as accurate as the 30BR. Even if the bullets and cases are good, are the ignition properties of a subsonic load somehow less consistent? In addition, the bullet is exiting the barrel 3X later, which gives vibration a longer time to affect the muzzle angle. Tuning the 510 rifle could be more like tuning a rimfire, except with larger displacements.

Cheers,
Keith
 
Kieth

I have certainly had my share of "projects". The successful ones I brag about, but that closet full of "that didn't work so wells" is something I sorta keep to myself.

Go for it. Somebody sooner or later probably will. I have seen some pretty strange things over the years.

There are only a handfull of chamberings that are actually capable of the kind of accuracy that is rerquired in Benchrest. True, the bigger the bullet diameter, the less accurate it has to be.

But, keep in mind, the 30's are winning because they ARE as accurate as any other chambering, not just within some percentage...........jackie
 
mks said:
Mike,
The formula for calculating the maximum group size to score X's is: bullet diameter + dot diameter = group size. There is no area in it.

The recoil of the subsonic 510 (1836 ftlb) is less than a 30BR (2198 ftlb), whether you put them in 10.5 lb guns or 13.5 lb, which is the more common choice for IBS score.

Still, this could be a bad idea if the bullet/load combination is worse than 66% as accurate as the 30BR. Even if the bullets and cases are good, are the ignition properties of a subsonic load somehow less consistent? In addition, the bullet is exiting the barrel 3X later, which gives vibration a longer time to affect the muzzle angle. Tuning the 510 rifle could be more like tuning a rimfire, except with larger displacements.

Cheers,
Keith
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first you are talking to a guy that is using ar's to shoot benchrest...

second you cannot take rifle weight out of the recoil formula...cause what is left is what the shooter feels...round after round.
third... bullets need velocity to ag. comparing a sub 50 to anything else is not relevant.....so you can throw that statement out.

go work up an ag'ing load with your 50 and then tell us what the recoil is.

like jackie said...go do and report back...

mike in co
 
jackie schmidt said:
Go for it. Somebody sooner or later probably will. I have seen some pretty strange things over the years.
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That's the bottom line, isn't it? Someone has to try it. (With as expensive as the bullets are, why not throw in an Etronx primer, too!:D) A concern I have is whether after one season IBS would outlaw the 510, whether it is successful or not. It is, after all, something of a loophole that caliber is unlimited in IBS score. Jeff, Dick, et al., what do you think about this?

Cheers,
Keith
 
The proof of the pie is in the eating...

But, I think this pie would be better skipped in favor of getting practice reading the flags.

This past weekend, I had my first success watching the flags-and-probes with my left eye. Made a huge difference.
 
What about a large bore high BC aluminum bullet of about 120 to 150 grains going 3,000 to 4,000 fps????
 
boom stick said:
What about a large bore high BC aluminum bullet of about 120 to 150 grains going 3,000 to 4,000 fps????
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That is an interesting idea, but BC is proportional to weight. So if you were to take, say, a 750 gr lead bullet with a great BC of 1.05 (the Hornady 0.510" Amax) and make it out of aluminum, since aluminum is 4.36x lighter than lead, it would be a 172 gr bullet with a crappy BC of 0.241. The new BC is worse than that of the 30 cal 115 gr Berger (BC=0.296), which probably has BC similar to custom BR bullets. The big bullet would still make a big hole in the target, but it would also get blown more by the wind than the 30 cal.

Cheers,
Keith
 
51OAEDimscopy.jpg
...and then I found out that 40 caliber was the limit :eek:
 
So 40 caliber as in what specific diameter maximum???
Can you make a .499" projectile and shoot it out of a .500" barrel?
As to aluminum bullets... if we are talking under 300 yards wind drift wont be that much of an issue.

If we are talking 40 cal as in .400" then might as well do a fast twist 375 shooting 265 grain balistic tips to 350 woodleighs
 
Peter,
Some details on these cartridges, please!

Thanks,
Keith
 
Here is a question...
Does anyone use the 300 Savage for hunter class benchrest? 52 grains capacity. yes 45 is the minimum but it would be better at launching the 155 grain Berger bullets. Maybe a better case for the 160 grain 338 bullets too.
Use high quality 308 brass to form. the 308 is just a long neck 300 savage anyway.
 
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Boom Stick

The 300 Savage used to be THE parent case for many HBR chamberings. It was easy to work with, and as you noted, was about the correct capacity.

It lost favor over the years, good brass became difficult to get, and shooters simply took a Lapua 308, pushed back the shoulder, and accopmplished the same thing, combined with the quality of the Lapua case.

Winchester might be the only manufacturer of 300 Savage Brass at this time. ........jackie
 
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