330 BRAR BR Wildcat Idea

B

boom stick

Guest
Any ideas on a 338-30 RAR?
I dubbed it the 330 BRAR for ease of conversion of barrel name and headstamp

Basically a 30 thou fatter case and fatter bullet than the 30 BR but same dimensions of the 30 RAR but necked up to 338

Was thinking a good 338 federal donor rifle conversion since it has a 338 barrel* and a .470 rim and seat out the 250 or 300 grain long target 338 bullets to the 2.9 or 3" magazine length or the lighter 160 grain TTSX for hunting.

The 30 RAR gets 125-grain bullet to achieve a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps so a 160 338 bullet should eek out at about 2,600 fps. Not too shabby. Maybe push the 250 Lapua scenars @ 1,900 fps and 300's @ 1,600 fps for unlimited weight category of shooting.

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* obviously any 308 family of cart guns would for a donor gun and a lot of people who shoot target shooting would want a say 26 or 28 inch barrel.

Hmmm... AR10 conversion?
 
Hmmmm...

No Yay's or Nay's...

Was thinking the Lapua 6.5x284 brass would give good accuracy.
 
A point of interest the necked up 330 BRAR would meet the requirement of the IBS HUNTER class has a MINIMUM case capacity requirement of 45 Gr. of water and a MINIMUM caliber requirement of .23"
 
Remember

That the 30RAR has a .495 Rim dia. not .473. Otherwise you could just make a 338-284 short.
 
boom stick said:
A point of interest the necked up 330 BRAR would meet the requirement of the IBS HUNTER class has a MINIMUM case capacity requirement of 45 Gr. of water and a MINIMUM caliber requirement of .23"
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Give it a go and let us know how it goes. I'd particularly be interested in the recoil.

If I was to shoot Hunter, I think I'd try a 30-6.5x47L.

Greg J.
 
Bigger Bullet

I guess your idea is to put an even bigger hole in the score target than a 30 cal so as to take advantage of the best edge scoring system.

You still have to get it to agg at Benchrest Levels, which means somewhere in the vacinity of .250 or better for an aggregate.

The Lapua Scenar Bullet in 6mm is a nice bullet, it shoots as good, if not better, in a 1-8 twist than a Berger, I don't know if the .338 bullet has the same accuracy potential.

Shooters have tried before to shorten up various cases and increase the bullet diamter to shoot HBR, and Varmint for Score. Most are not worth the effert. Recoil tends to be a problem, plus, you just can't get the things to shoot at a level of accuracy that is needed to be competitive.

The reason the 30Calibers are so popular is there is an entire industry built around the system, esspecially in the barrel, brass, and bullet department. I feel safe in saying that some of the finest bullets being made at this time a 30 calibers, turned out by the likes Of BIB, Knight, Cheeks, etc.

Untill the same universal effort is put into a caliber such as .338, I think your endevour, while being satisfying for simply trying it, will in the end be a big disappointment..........jackie
 
So Boom stick
who makes match quality bullets in this cal. and light enough to be bearable for 50 to 60 rounds minimum of shooting from a bench say under 150 grains ?
125 grain bullets from a 13.5 pound 30BR chambered rifle is already more than many people care to shoot. There might actually be a future in short range BR to what you are thinking if you had the right bullets available oh and some very consistent brass would also be necessary.

Dick
 
Using the best 6.5x284 brass would be ticket to brass quality.
Was thinking the 338 160 grain ttsx would be a good bullet for this and the high BC 338 lapua pills

Dick Grosbier said:
So Boom stick
who makes match quality bullets in this cal. and light enough to be bearable for 50 to 60 rounds minimum of shooting from a bench say under 150 grains ?
125 grain bullets from a 13.5 pound 30BR chambered rifle is already more than many people care to shoot. There might actually be a future in short range BR to what you are thinking if you had the right bullets available oh and some very consistent brass would also be necessary.

Dick
Click to expand...
 
Yes, bigger hole for better scoring.

Was thinking the high BC 338 bullets designed for the 338 Lapua albeit slower could give some good results. Yes, shooting a 250 grain bullet will give more recoil @ 3,000 fps but at 2,200 it would be a different story.

jackie schmidt said:
I guess your idea is to put an even bigger hole in the score target than a 30 cal so as to take advantage of the best edge scoring system.

You still have to get it to agg at Benchrest Levels, which means somewhere in the vacinity of .250 or better for an aggregate.

The Lapua Scenar Bullet in 6mm is a nice bullet, it shoots as good, if not better, in a 1-8 twist than a Berger, I don't know if the .338 bullet has the same accuracy potential.

Shooters have tried before to shorten up various cases and increase the bullet diamter to shoot HBR, and Varmint for Score. Most are not worth the effert. Recoil tends to be a problem, plus, you just can't get the things to shoot at a level of accuracy that is needed to be competitive.

The reason the 30Calibers are so popular is there is an entire industry built around the system, esspecially in the barrel, brass, and bullet department. I feel safe in saying that some of the finest bullets being made at this time a 30 calibers, turned out by the likes Of BIB, Knight, Cheeks, etc.

Untill the same universal effort is put into a caliber such as .338, I think your endevour, while being satisfying for simply trying it, will in the end be a big disappointment..........jackie
Click to expand...
 
Has anyone done a short 300 Win Mag using the 300 WM reamer to say under 1.6" and using Lapua 6.5x284 brass?

That will give the capacity to qualify for the Hunter class. Think of it as a 30 RAR "Improved"
 
From what i gather, necking up the 6.5x47L will give you a 30x46 due to the shrinkage from necking up.

Will Lapua do a 30x46? Me hopes so.

SGJennings said:
Give it a go and let us know how it goes. I'd particularly be interested in the recoil.

If I was to shoot Hunter, I think I'd try a 30-6.5x47L.

Greg J.
Click to expand...
 
I believe the 30-6.5x47L has the case capacity to meet the 45 grains of water rule. Great brass readily available. Easy to form. There is a whole crop of super-man bullets for the 30's. Bunches of super-man barrels available too.

You'd have to conquer:

1. Brass, but it sounds like you might have it covered.
2. *Quality* bullets.
3. Availability of load data, but that can be overcome.
4. Recoil. And, if you slow it down enough to kick less than a 30x47, what is the wind going to do to it? Is the powder still going to fill the case?

Greg J.
 
510 Lapua Mag Short

boom stick said:
Any ideas on a 338-30 RAR?
Click to expand...

Here's a thought, for what it's worth: A 0.338" bullet only makes a 10% larger hole in the target than a 0.308", so why not go to a 0.510", which gives you a 66% advantage. There are some good 510 bullets available (e.g., lehigh.com), based on 1000 yd results (group record under 2"). To limit recoil in a 13.5# rifle, subsonic muzzle velocity would be necessary. A shortened 338 Lapua mag case (like 510 Whisper) would provide plenty of case capacity and is large enough diameter to allow a small shoulder for headspacing. The big bullet only has to shoot a 0.510 + 0.125 = 0.635" group at 200 yd to hit all X's, or a 0.510 + 1.0 = 1.51" group to hit all 10's.

Here's the comparison of external ballistics (from Hornady's online calculator):

0.510" 750 gr Amax BC=1.05 MV=1050 fps gives 1836 ftlb muzzle energy, 2.2" windage (10 mph crosswind) and 31.4" drop (for 100 yd zero) at 200 yd.

0.308" 110 gr Vmax BC=0.29 MV=3000 fps gives 2198 ftlb muzzle energy, 4.1" windage and 3.3" drop at 200 yd.

The big bullet has significantly less recoil than the 30BR and half the wind drift, which would really help at 200 yd. Its almost 10x greater drop is a disadvantage. A 10 fps difference in MV causes a change in drop of about 0.5", so ES would have to be controlled closely.

I think this round has potential for score shooting, but the bullets are almost $2 each. Some racer once said, "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

Cheers,
Keith
 
I have thought of this too.
Lehigh makes aluminum bullets for 458 and made me think about a high BC bullet in 458 and 500 so you can push a 150 to 200 grain high bc bullet @ over 3,000 fps for less bullet drop and a better score. In 338 you could get the same high BC profile as the 300 grain bullets but weigh about 115 grains so the same recoil as the 30 BR.

mks said:
Here's a thought, for what it's worth: A 0.338" bullet only makes a 10% larger hole in the target than a 0.308", so why not go to a 0.510", which gives you a 66% advantage. There are some good 510 bullets available (e.g., lehigh.com), based on 1000 yd results (group record under 2"). To limit recoil in a 13.5# rifle, subsonic muzzle velocity would be necessary. A shortened 338 Lapua mag case (like 510 Whisper) would provide plenty of case capacity and is large enough diameter to allow a small shoulder for headspacing. The big bullet only has to shoot a 0.510 + 0.125 = 0.635" group at 200 yd to hit all X's, or a 0.510 + 1.0 = 1.51" group to hit all 10's.

Here's the comparison of external ballistics (from Hornady's online calculator):

0.510" 750 gr Amax BC=1.05 MV=1050 fps gives 1836 ftlb muzzle energy, 2.2" windage (10 mph crosswind) and 31.4" drop (for 100 yd zero) at 200 yd.

0.308" 110 gr Vmax BC=0.29 MV=3000 fps gives 2198 ftlb muzzle energy, 4.1" windage and 3.3" drop at 200 yd.

The big bullet has significantly less recoil than the 30BR and half the wind drift, which would really help at 200 yd. Its almost 10x greater drop is a disadvantage. A 10 fps difference in MV causes a change in drop of about 0.5", so ES would have to be controlled closely.

I think this round has potential for score shooting, but the bullets are almost $2 each. Some racer once said, "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

Cheers,
Keith
Click to expand...
 
ok a 338 is 17% more area than a 308....area counts in score.
why not a 500...cause there is a current limit of 40 cal in short range br.

case is too big and no bullet of br quality.

so what is your intention for this round ???

remember this is the short range br forum

mike in co
 
What is the maximum diameter? Anything in the 40's? would 458 be ok?
My intention would be a larger bore useful for BR and hunting.

mike in co said:
ok a 338 is 17% more area than a 308....area counts in score.
why not a 500...cause there is a current limit of 40 cal in short range br.

case is too big and no bullet of br quality.

so what is your intention for this round ???

remember this is the short range br forum

mike in co
Click to expand...
 
Fantasy Land

I think all of you shooters who are fantasizing about putting a big ole hole and grabbing all of those X's need to go to a couple of Varmint for Score score matches and get a handle on what type of accuracy a Rifle has to possess in order to hit 20+ X's on a consistant basis.

That being said, if someone came up with a 338 bullet and case combo that would shoot Benchrest Accuracy, it would be worth looking at.

There is no current bullet that is larger than 30 Cal on the market that can agg at a level that it would take to beat a good shooting 30, or a 6mm for that matter.

As for the recoil, I can shoot my 30BR 10.5 pound Rifle with 112's at about 3000 fps for one agg, and then I would just as soon not be seen with for a while............jackie
 
I am trying to think outside the box. A rifle, barrel ect is so vital to BR but I was thinking of ways to improve performance or increase score.

If you have access to a good lathe or a swage you can make any bullet you want and to amazing levels of quality.

a 17 % increase in area of the 338 over the 30 not to mention a 6.5 is good.

I know recoil is an issue so custom bullets in aluminum or lower velocity can be done.

Maybe a 375 Win and a 115 grain high BC aluminum bullets could be an interesting option.
A big bullet diameter, enough capacity and cheap 30-30 cases but would need to be massaged to work well. out to 200 yards it would be interesting.

jackie schmidt said:
I think all of you shooters who are fantasizing about putting a big ole hole and grabbing all of those X's need to go to a couple of Varmint for Score score matches and get a handle on what type of accuracy a Rifle has to possess in order to hit 20+ X's on a consistant basis.

That being said, if someone came up with a 338 bullet and case combo that would shoot Benchrest Accuracy, it would be worth looking at.

There is no current bullet that is larger than 30 Cal on the market that can agg at a level that it would take to beat a good shooting 30, or a 6mm for that matter.

As for the recoil, I can shoot my 30BR 10.5 pound Rifle with 112's at about 3000 fps for one agg, and then I would just as soon not be seen with for a while............jackie
Click to expand...
 
40 cal.....


and as jackie and others have said without the bullet you are in dream land.


remember there is a rifle weight limit, so recoil will go up as bullet weight goes up......you will need velocity to make it work...lobbing does not work in the wind.


mike in co
 
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