30REM AR 30* improved

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williev18

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Hey guys, im looking into creating my first wild cat, and im getting ready so submit a priint to pacific tool and guage. Its going to be based on the 30RAR but with the shoulder pushed forward to 30* to go from the current 44gr water capacity to by my calculations just a wisker over 45. My problem is i dont have any fancy auto cad programs and ive done all of the math old school based on basic geometry, i was wondering if some one would look over my print to make sure my new case wall lengths coincide properly with the shoulder angle change.

any help would be appreciated.

thanks
Will
 

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You don't. It CAN be formed from 450 Bushmaster brass or the original parent cartridge the .284 Win.
 
unfortuniatly remington isnt selling empty brass right now, so for now im going to have to buy factory loaded stuff. I'm hoping i can use the factory loads to blow the neck forward and fire form the brass, thats why i have opted for a .334 no turn neck. im almost ready to submit my print to have a reamer made, i just want to be 100 percent certain that the dimentions are right before i send out for the reamer, so if there are any engineers out there i would realy love some one to look over my print.

thanks
Will
 
There is nothing new under the sun

williev18 said:
Hey guys, im looking into creating my first wild cat, and im getting ready so submit a priint to pacific tool and guage. Its going to be based on the 30RAR but with the shoulder pushed forward to 30* to go from the current 44gr water capacity to by my calculations just a wisker over 45. My problem is i dont have any fancy auto cad programs and ive done all of the math old school based on basic geometry, i was wondering if some one would look over my print to make sure my new case wall lengths coincide properly with the shoulder angle change.

any help would be appreciated.

thanks
Will
Click to expand...

I have had a print for one of those for over a year. It was done by someone wanting to make the case legal for the Hunter Class in Benchrest. I have a cert for a new reamer I won at an event and think I may use it for one of those. I use a similar chambering made off a .284 case. It is just a few thou longer than the AR case.
 
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Pete, thats exacty what im looking to do with it. I subitted my print to pacific tool today and they made the minor corrections to it. Apparently it hasnt been that long since geometry class since I was only off .002 on the case wall legth, after pushing the shoulder forward to 30*. They confirmed that i should meet my 45 gr water capacity goal. I will keep every one updated as i develop the cartridge. I just hoping the brass source doesnt become too much of a pain. Maby if enough people squeal to REM they might offer empty brass.
 
Roger T said:
The rim sizes on the 284/450 cases are different than the 30 AR (.485)
Click to expand...
30 Rem AR
Parent case .450 Bushmaster
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Base diameter .500 in (12.7 mm)
Rim diameter .473 in (12.0 mm)
Rim thickness .054 in (1.4 mm)
Case length 1.53 in (39 mm)
Overall length 2.26 in (57 mm)
Case capacity 44 gr H2O (2.86 cm³)
Rifling twist 1:10
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure 55,000 psi (380 MPa)

284 Win
Bullet diameter 7.21 mm (0.284 in)
Neck diameter 8.13 mm (0.320 in)
Shoulder diameter 12.06 mm (0.475 in)
Base diameter 12.72 mm (0.501 in)
Rim diameter 12.01 mm (0.473 in)
Rim thickness 1.02 mm (0.040 in)
Case length 55.12 mm (2.170 in)
Overall length 71.12 mm (2.800 in)
Case capacity 4.29 cm³ (66 gr H2O)
Rifling twist 254 mm (1 in -10 in)
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure 440 MPa (64,000 psi)

Wikipedia has it all wrong too then. Who knew?!
 
IIRC, the original 30RAR was the same but they changed it slightly to prevent firing of a 30RAR in a .284 chamber. At least that's what I think I read as some point....don't know how true it is.--Mike
 
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again , gentlemen,
wicki has NO proofing of thier posts...notice i did not say DATA.
ITS JUST POST BY ANYONE WITH NO PROOFING. NO VERIFICATION.

so while it is quick, take it with a large grain of salt.

mike in co
 
Superman said:
30 Rem AR
Parent case .450 Bushmaster
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Base diameter .500 in (12.7 mm)
Rim diameter .473 in (12.0 mm)
Rim thickness .054 in (1.4 mm)
Case length 1.53 in (39 mm)
Overall length 2.26 in (57 mm)
Case capacity 44 gr H2O (2.86 cm³)
Rifling twist 1:10
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure 55,000 psi (380 MPa)

284 Win
Bullet diameter 7.21 mm (0.284 in)
Neck diameter 8.13 mm (0.320 in)
Shoulder diameter 12.06 mm (0.475 in)
Base diameter 12.72 mm (0.501 in)
Rim diameter 12.01 mm (0.473 in)
Rim thickness 1.02 mm (0.040 in)
Case length 55.12 mm (2.170 in)
Overall length 71.12 mm (2.800 in)
Case capacity 4.29 cm³ (66 gr H2O)
Rifling twist 254 mm (1 in -10 in)
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure 440 MPa (64,000 psi)

Wikipedia has it all wrong too then. Who knew?!
Click to expand...

My Info was from the cartridge diagrams in RCBS load(specifically the Designing Cartridges portion of the program). The .492 has also been listed in various magazine articles of the cartridge. So I guess if someone ACTUALLY has a case to measure ...well that would confirm any dimentional differences.......
 
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The ones I have measure .485. -Al

p.s. They were to be .473, but were changed due to reasons stated above. Whether any .473 dia. cases were ever factory produced, I have no idea. At any rate, it wouldn't be much of a chore to make 'em .473.
 
Because I have been there........your first step should be to secure all the brass you will ever need from the same lot!!!!!!!!!!

Best wishes
 
I would be sure you have a supply of brass before spending a lot of time. The last I heard, after dealing with lug breakage and feeding issues with this cartridge in the modified AR-15 platform, remington finally abandoned the project.

John
 
Al Nyhus said:
The ones I have measure .485. -Al

p.s. They were to be .473, but were changed due to reasons stated above. Whether any .473 dia. cases were ever factory produced, I have no idea. At any rate, it wouldn't be much of a chore to make 'em .473.
Click to expand...

I bought a box of loaded cartridges last year and the ones I hve are .500 @ the base of the case, as I recall. I am very close to getting a reamer made. The only thing holding me back is I have two sets of dies for making 30-284 Short on hand. I sure hate to abandon all that tooling and the 350 cases I have made up now. Dies are always a problem wih these wildcats and I am loath to get into another one because of that alone.
 
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The first barrel is going onto a savage action so if i have to get another bolt face and open it up a little to accept the .485 rim its no a game stopper, this has got to be easier than turning every piece of brass. Ive orderd the reamer, barrel, and stock, and ive started working with Redding for dies. I have gotten 60 rounds of factory ammo to start working the brass, and do load testing. I am working on getting decent price on a bulk order of factory loads to secure enough brass to at least out last this barrel. With any luck i should be firing my first rounds by early next spring.
 
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