30br reamer?

Greg, glad you have a sense of humor!:eek: I tend to get anal regarding terminology myself - following my re-birth/survival day, a few years ago, I "mellowed out" some.:p As a rule, when I get involved if this argument, I accept free-bore and leade as the same difference , but consider "Throat and throating" something else, as it does, at least toward the muzzle end, have rifling, and the angle is not an entirely unimportant consideration. I can relate to the educational aspect also - way back when, one of my best supervisors ever, asked for my KTI rating -
I shouldn't have asked what that was, but did: Knob Twisting Idiot - I never turned the wrong knob [on that press] again. :p;)RG
 
If you really want to have some fun, ask someone what the free bore diameter of their 'zero freebore' chamber is. ;)

Shoveling in The Forbidden Zone. :) -Al[/QUOTE]

Al,
Now thats the type of question that just makes me squint;)

Randy,
If I didn't have a sense of humor I would probably be a statistic by now.
I like that KTI, I may borrow that in the future.
It would also be appropriate for the guys that show up to our 1000 yd match with no idea
of which way to spin there scope knobs to get on paper. (at a BR match!:confused:)
Enjoy the New Year everyone!
Greg
 
Here's a copy of something I posted on another forum about a year ago.

The [so called] Robinett 30BR reamer - exposed.

Attached is a copy (pic) of the original, and only Robinett 30 BR reamer. A reamer featuring a single alteration is not a Robinett reamer, but rather, “something else”. The only reason that my name was attached to the reamer was/is because I ordered it: at the very least, upon any alteration, my name should have been removed.

While alterations are neither necessarily bad, nor, good, they are different. When I ordered my original reamer - subsequent to, and different than Ronnie Long’s [original] reamer- I did not ask that it be proprietary, nor did I request to have my name attached/associated with copies of my dimensions: only that clones be readily available; no strings attached.

Regrettably, beyond my control, there are a multitude of reamers bearing my name, many of them, with dimensional changes which, in combination with the short/light thirty caliber bullets, are undesirable. Here are two [common] ‘deal wrecker’ attributes:

1) Excessive OAL, thus, too long a chamber neck length - typically, 1.560” (SAAMI Spec. .22 BR OAL). Mechanical neck-up processes reduce neck-length, thus OAL: 1.520” necked-up brass, in a 1.560” chamber will result in 0.040” ‘counterfeit’ free-bore.

My tooling never produces a necked-up 6mm LAPUA case in excess of 1.515” long - most are 1.512-1.513” before trimming to square the mouths. Thus, the specified maximum OAL of 1.510” on the original reamer - this has worked very well. Note: few expand-up processes/tools produce OAL greater than 1.520” - more on this later; in brief, fire-forming does produce longer necks/OAL. Know the OAL of your reamer/chamber.

Any amount of free-bore, especially in conjunction with #1(above). Already, #1 will all but preclude seating the short/light bullets against, or even near the lands - actual free-bore, in combination with excessive chamber-neck length [usually] spells poor results. Short 30 caliber BR quality bullets do not require any free-bore.

Note: my original reamer features a [unusual] 1.75 degree throat angle - the typical 1.5 Deg. angle requires seating the bullet out even further! With the 1.75 Deg. throat angle, and brass trimmed only 0.010” short of filling the chamber-neck, the base of a typical short/light thirty caliber bullet, seated to contact the lands, will have only about 0.125” of shank in the case neck. Short case-necks, and free-bore erode bullet grip fast!

Not quite as bad, is a poorly positioned, or, inadequate cone diameter (variously referred to as ‘throat’, ‘leade’, etc.): the cone should remove every vestige of land material, preferably, at least, skimming (cleaning-up) the bottom of the grooves, affording the bullet free access to the barrel/lands. A zero free-bore reamer does just this, right off of the chamber mouth. This is not to be confused with the typical 45 degree angle at most reamer mouths, which presumably is a better chamber:barrel transition than a perpendicular wall.

There are two alterations, which, if ordering a new reamer, I would make to my original:
Diameter, at the .200” (ahead of bolt-face) DATUM line , I would state, “not less than 0.4715”.
Neck diameter 0.331”, no taper.

Note: the hand written .315 above the neck, on this print, is the approximate neck-length of my brass, when trimmed for 0.010” [length] clearance, or, when trimmed to 1.500” OAL.

I hope that this is understandable and proves useful. Keep ‘em ON the X! RG

If there is any interest, I'll attempt to post a couple of GOOD chamber reamer prints - if Russ Stiner is watching, perhaps he'll help! Another very good reamer is Dwayne Pullmm's. These reamers are based upon mechanical, "necking-up" of the brass. For those who prefer fire-forming, Jackie Schmidt's method and reamer dimensions will be difficult to best. :cool:RG
 
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Randy,
Thanks a lot for posting this! I actually based my reamer on most of what you put in this post which I had read previously on another forum.
It was invaluable in not only eliminating the many "Robinette" reamers prints out there and starting from scratch with your advise posted.
I decided on a .332 nk for mine, one question I have for you is why "no less then .4715 at the .200 datum line."? Is there a particular reason for that?
I ask because I have 2 6 BR reamers one is .4710 and one is .4695. The .4695 seems to work really well with the current version of Lapua brass.
My guess would be my pressures on the 6 are higher then with the load I have been using in my last 30.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Regards,
Greg
 
Randy,
Thanks a lot for posting this! I actually based my reamer on most of what you put in this post which I had read previously on another forum.
It was invaluable in not only eliminating the many "Robinette" reamers prints out there and starting from scratch with your advise posted.
I decided on a .332 nk for mine, one question I have for you is why "no less then .4715 at the .200 datum line."? Is there a particular reason for that?
I ask because I have 2 6 BR reamers one is .4710 and one is .4695. The .4695 seems to work really well with the current version of Lapua brass.
My guess would be my pressures on the 6 are higher then with the load I have been using in my last 30.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Regards,
Greg

Most of the virgin Lapua 6 BR Norma brass has mic'd 0.4690-.4695" (CORRECTED dimension!:p) above the extractor groove - after accepting advice from Hugh Henrickesn (no less than 0.002" clearance between chamber and virgin brass - and 0.003" is better!:eek:), regarding this attribute, I have never encountered the dreaded "click" at primary extraction . . . and, as a rule, over-the-counter size dies work better.

I got lucky with the "fit" between my original Redding Type "S" FL/NK bushing die and my original 30BR reamer (spec'd web. Dia. 0.4707"), and have never experienced the "click" - others have been less fortunate. However, the Harrell's handle that issue nicely, and very affordably.:) It's just better to avoid from inception - this is an attribute, where, "bigger IS better", works well.;)RG

P.S. I have corrected, and so noted, the misinformation, regarding the web diameter of the LAPUA brass, posted above.
 
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So if I was to order a JGS reamer with a 0 lead or freebore and a .332 neck I would be plenty safe? I plan on necking the brass up using a pma mandrel if it makes any difference.
 
Does anyone happen to have a jgs print? Or would I be better off with someone else's dreamer like Henrickson?
 
As an admitted wordsmith (not pedant) I've been searching the etymology of 'leade' for a number of yrs. AFAIK the only reference in common parlance is 'leade, rocky tapered beach or shore'........

As a shooting term, every reamer maker I know specifies both leade angle and freebore length and diameter, some without naming even the leade angle although PTG does. I also have 3 reamers with non-parallel freebore sections, ie tapered freebore.
 
Trxr

Here are some Reamer Prints: the Original 30BR Robinett and two Variants that work For me!
Based upon the way I neck expand and form my brass & shoot with 7-ogive bullets.

My cases are 1.521 to 1.522 long after case neck expander is used and fire formed.
I trim to 1.515 length and neck turn to .3275-.3280 loaded round.

These prints may not work for you or others!

I'm sure there are several different 30BR configurations I think they all work very well as long as your bullet reaches the Lands or "jamb".

The 30BR is an awesome cartridge for score shooting!

P.S I'm not sure what Leade is! I call it Lead like the print show's :p

If Jackie could post a picture of the reamer print he uses that would cover the fireform method he has had success with.

Good Luck and enjoy the sport!
Russ


30BR-Stiner.jpgPTG-30BR.jpgOriginal-30BR-Robinett.jpg
 
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Thank you, Russ!

So if I was to order a JGS reamer with a 0 lead or freebore and a .332 neck I would be plenty safe? I plan on necking the brass up using a pma mandrel if it makes any difference.

You'll probably be very pleased with these dimensions. :D If you intend to mechanically neck-up your brass, I would not order an OAL exceeding 1.525"(see Russ' JGS print). The .332" neck should accommodate complete clean-up the necks with neck turning.

Thanks for helping out, Russ! :)RG
 
Guys, the only reason for the existence of my reamer is the way I make my brass. I blow it out the cases rather than necking them up.

It is nothing more than a .330 neck, zero freebore reamer with a trim to length of 1.545.
 
yeah, but . . .

Guys, the only reason for the existence of my reamer is the way I make my brass. I blow it out the cases rather than necking them up.

It is nothing more than a .330 neck, zero freebore reamer with a trim to length of 1.545.

Jackie, your method is solid and produces results - just a little difficult for those not equipped with a lathe to open up the neck on a 6mm BR barrel! ;) The important attribute is the chamber-neck full of brass, thus no .330" diameter, "free-bore"! ;)RG
 
i fire form empty cases to use jackie's reamer.
i think jackie does too.
my trimmer for my 6mm dasher and 30 br is set at 1.545 for a 1.550 chamber.

Jackie, your method is solid and produces results - just a little difficult for those not equipped with a lathe to open up the neck on a 6mm BR barrel! ;) The important attribute is the chamber-neck full of brass, thus no .330" diameter, "free-bore"! ;)RG
 
Trxr

Here are some Reamer Prints: the Original 30BR Robinett and two Variants that work For me!
Based upon the way I neck expand and form my brass & shoot with 7-ogive bullets.

My cases are 1.521 to 1.522 long after case neck expander is used and fire formed.
I trim to 1.515 length and neck turn to .3275-.3280 loaded round.

These prints may not work for you or others!

I'm sure there are several different 30BR configurations I think they all work very well as long as your bullet reaches the Lands or "jamb".

The 30BR is an awesome cartridge for score shooting!

P.S I'm not sure what Leade is! I call it Lead like the print show's :p

If Jackie could post a picture of the reamer print he uses that would cover the fireform method he has had success with.

Good Luck and enjoy the sport!
Russ


View attachment 21848View attachment 21849View attachment 21850


Thanks Russ

What procedure do you use to neck up the brass? I am looking at PMA tools neck expander and doing it in one step. Not sure what oal thats going to create though.

Thanks
 
TrxR

I made my own neck expander. It has a long taper just like the PMA carbide one. I would suggest you buy PMA's carbide neck turning mandrel to match their Expander. it will make the brass a better fit to the turning mandrel.

I made the mistake of buying one brand expander and another brand turning mandrel. That's why I had to make a expander that matched the mandrel

Russ
 
Russ : when you say 7 ogive bullets how do you tell what they are? Does the manufactorer list this? Is there any decent berger or sierra or speers that will work ? Im not sure if i can get anything like barts in canada but i will check.

Thanks
 
Russ : when you say 7 ogive bullets how do you tell what they are? Does the manufactorer list this? Is there any decent berger or sierra or speers that will work ? Im not sure if i can get anything like barts in canada but i will check.

Thanks

TrxR,
FWIW, I have used the Berger 115 FB Targets with great success.
If you want to go with custom get ahold of Randy (Bib Bullets) and see what he recommends.
Most of the top shooters use his bullets.
I don't know whether he can ship to Canada or not.
Regards,
Greg
 
"most" is a pretty big comment.
i agree great bullets as are barts..i shoot barts.
i have shot 115 bergers very well.

TrxR,
FWIW, I have used the Berger 115 FB Targets with great success.
If you want to go with custom get ahold of Randy (Bib Bullets) and see what he recommends.
Most of the top shooters use his bullets.
I don't know whether he can ship to Canada or not.
Regards,
Greg
 
When i read a 7 or 8 ogive bullet what is the exact measurement of the two? Also im assuming using the same barrel a 8 ogive would be seated deeper into the case than a 7 ogive?

And i would like to apologize for all the questions but i am new to this and want to learn as much as possible.

Im also reading as much as possible about making bullets as there dont seem to be alot of options here in Canada.

Thanks
 
TrxR

I'm no expert on ogive measurements. I skipped math class for lunch!

all I can say is the sleeker the bullet is on the front end it has a higher ogive #.

Example: 118gr 10 tangent ogive bullet is sleeker front end than a 118gr 7 tangent ogive.

Therefore the 7 tangent ogive will seat further into the case neck when touching the lands.

Good .308 bullets that work the best with a 30BR are short 110gr-118gr.

As far as commercial bullets Sierra .308 110gr HP has showed the best results in my rifles.

Russ
 
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