30 PPC a fad ?

Look guys i mean no disrespect, And the ppc holds all the records ect ect.. but i know that there are several cartridges out there that can shoot
right with the 6ppc. And over history there have been a few that have wow over the ppc.So to think the 6ppc cant be outshot is just crazy thinking.
But i do believe that the accurarcy standards of group benchrest is astounding and to be competitive, i dont care weather your shooting a state of the the art 6ppc
or a old varmit rifle everything needs to be working right or the groups will suffer and your done.

Im sure most of you guys have much more experience at BR than i do and im sure most of you have went to the range and just shot some big old groups.
with no explanation why, conditions,load tune,just a bad shooting day..on your part.

Im mean the guy saying the 6ppc will never be beat has never shot some big groups out of his 6ppc, i mean has he won every match he's entered..

I do think the platforms are there to stay, ppc's BR's ect.
the surch should be to find out what they like to eat and what can make them shoot more conistantly in top tune..

sorry just my thoughts, groups in the zero's and .100's does not matter the name on the cartridge that shot them...
 
AndyB
I would think that the precess an application stating Whom the shooter is would be strictly prohibited, the caliber may be identified but NOT the shooter. The process should be to put a NUMBER on the target to identify the shooter only, that way NO scorer knows who shot the target. I shoot the Prone game and would NOT allow the scorer to actually know who's target he is scoring.

Clarence
 
Agree totally Clarence, I was refering to caliber on equipment card to allow a scorer to know ahead of time what calibers would be competing in the match. I guess that could lead to exsposing the name of the shooter. However, the refs typically are not shown who was shooting, as most also compete typically. We cover the target bench/relay numbers and competitor numbers with another target when having them ref'ed. Someone would need to know what caliber the hole is, I hope. I would hope the head score keeper would be impartial to that information. Not so much of a problem in score shooting. But in group I would think someone would have to know what calibers are to be scored, and on what target. Start measuring all the holes as 6mm and thats going to ruin someones day if shooting a .308

Andy B.
 
mark-x said:
Look guys i mean no disrespect, And the ppc holds all the records ect ect.. but i know that there are several cartridges out there that can shoot
right with the 6ppc. And over history there have been a few that have wow over the ppc.So to think the 6ppc cant be outshot is just crazy thinking.
But i do believe that the accurarcy standards of group benchrest is astounding and to be competitive, i dont care weather your shooting a state of the the art 6ppc
or a old varmit rifle everything needs to be working right or the groups will suffer and your done.

Im sure most of you guys have much more experience at BR than i do and im sure most of you have went to the range and just shot some big old groups.
with no explanation why, conditions,load tune,just a bad shooting day..on your part.

Im mean the guy saying the 6ppc will never be beat has never shot some big groups out of his 6ppc, i mean has he won every match he's entered..

I do think the platforms are there to stay, ppc's BR's ect.
the surch should be to find out what they like to eat and what can make them shoot more conistantly in top tune..

sorry just my thoughts, groups in the zero's and .100's does not matter the name on the cartridge that shot them...
Click to expand...

Mark - X,

No disrespect intended. But Facts are needed. You are making allegations that are unsubstantiated by you statements. And since you are hiding behind a "handle", also unsubstantiated by your credentials. That said, the 6PPC is the current "king of the hill". the 6PPC is the current go to cartridge for GROUP shooting. If you have another configuration that you think is worthy of being a King maker, then do what Palmisano and Pindell did 30+ years ago and get it going.get people shooting your cartridge and winning and setting records and you will be the next GREAT THING. And 30 years later, someone will be bitching about your cartridge and wondering why no one is experimenting
 
David Halblom said:
Mark - X,

No disrespect intended. But Facts are needed. You are making allegations that are unsubstantiated by you statements. And since you are hiding behind a "handle", also unsubstantiated by your credentials. That said, the 6PPC is the current "king of the hill". the 6PPC is the current go to cartridge for GROUP shooting. If you have another configuration that you think is worthy of being a King maker, then do what Palmisano and Pindell did 30+ years ago and get it going.get people shooting your cartridge and winning and setting records and you will be the next GREAT THING. And 30 years later, someone will be bitching about your cartridge and wondering why no one is experimenting
Click to expand...

David, I believe that there are other good cartridges out there...but I don't see anything "dethroning" the PPC for some time. The reason I think this is simply because the standard set by the PPC is so high. A .009" record and agging in the teens ain't too shabby of a track record. There simply has to be more advantage to another cartridge than is currently available to prove it worth while to change. We're already well passed most, if not all, shooters' abililities' with the potential of the PPC. The shooter has become the weakest link. That's no surprise in my case. The only fair way to say which is best is for a fairly equal number of quality shooters compete head to head with other cartridges, for a reasonably long time. That won't likely happen til something comes along that completely turns the game upside down. I don't know if that will ever happen or not, but never is a long time.--Mike Ezell
 
david you must be miss understanding what im saying..first i will say im speeking of bag fired rifles for group shooting.
yes i agree the 6ppc is king of the hill. all records prove it..
Im saying there are cartridges that are capable of the acuracry level of the ppc and can contend with it..there have been several who have won matches with cartrigdges other than the ppc.. so for someone to think the 6ppc cant be beat is just not true,,is what i was saying.. And the accuracry level to win a group match is just astounding..so if a fellow shot groups in the zeros' or .100's with a .222 or what ever cartridge he or she uses it would kind of be hard to better that. no matter what cartridge they are shooting and yes the logical easy choice should be the 6ppc but some just continue to try and shoot something else.
As far as hiding behind a user name..im real new to this computer stuff...some fellows would ask me at times,,hey you ever get on BR central or this other forum,,and i say no im just not into that,,
well i got on as you can see less than a year ago..and when it asked for A user name i just made something up..I have tryed to change it and cant , but i am trying my hand at group shooting at club level, at this point..i have shot in one reg match, but i have been shooting groups since i was 12 years old with everything from 22LR's to ultra mags and i just cant stop..love the BR rifle group shooting..I shot this morning at 200yrds and 300yrds groups, getting ready to head to a club match..
 
mwezell said:
David, I believe that there are other good cartridges out there...but I don't see anything "dethroning" the PPC for some time. The reason I think this is simply because the standard set by the PPC is so high. A .009" record and agging in the teens ain't too shabby of a track record. There simply has to be more advantage to another cartridge than is currently available to prove it worth while to change. We're already well passed most, if not all, shooters' abililities' with the potential of the PPC. The shooter has become the weakest link. That's no surprise in my case. The only fair way to say which is best is for a fairly equal number of quality shooters compete head to head with other cartridges, for a reasonably long time. That won't likely happen til something comes along that completely turns the game upside down. I don't know if that will ever happen or not, but never is a long time.--Mike Ezell
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Mike i might be mistaken, i thought that controversial .009 record group was shot by a .222
please correct me if im wrong.
 
Just out of curiosity what was the controversy? Did they have moving backers.
 
Vern said:
Just out of curiosity what was the controversy? Did they have moving backers.
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Vern i dont know if they had moving backers or not..I read somewhere years ago that there was some disbelief and hupla ect ect, before the the group made it to a record and then some after, i cant remember just what ...probably the same kind of stuff if someone shoots a .008 in the next reg/match now,And oh my what if it wasent a 6ppc that shot it..
Look guys im on here for fun and to pass some time and i dont want to make enemy's of anyone.
But im going to quit being bashfull about it . Im a avocate of the 6BR and i believe my 6BR can contend with the ppc and even out shoot it.I am on my way to prove it, dont know for sure i can but untill i prove it to my self that the 6BR cant get it done,i will keep trying..
im a big fan of anything TJ jackson jr wrote..My favorite artical from oct/1985 PS mag, a artical that made the benchrest shooting primer book.. Tj said ya made a few left turns where all the signs said you should have made a right..ya i love that one...
I dont think the 6ppc will ever be replaced completely in group BR. But all indications say there is a velocity node right at the edge of the 6ppc's tune window that some rifles can hit and some cant, and the surch for a vintage powder that gets it into that node and humming..when the 6BR can work easly in that velocity window and i have found as TJ did it just hums..And it would seem everyone wants to shorten tha case where every indication say hey maybe we should lenghten the case where we could get that 31 or 32 grs in with out a drop tube and maybe we could keep it in that velocity window easyer, with several powder we could get off the shelf. I do think that a few are on to that and so were the orignal inventers with some improved versions..not that they would be anymore accurate than the ppc,just they might be easyer to keep in top tune..Its funny i think the 6AR is just ideal for the job..so i might try playing with one.
hey these are just my thoughts and opinions. so dont be to hard on me.
 
It Makes No Difference.

The only thing that matters is the .009 group is a recognized record. It passed the scrutiny of the Records Committee, and that is that. It will be the record untill someone shoots a .008........jackie
 
It's a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6. A 6.5 Grendel is, in turn, a 6PPC with the shoulder pushed forward. So, a 6AR is, in effect, a 6PPC long. That is in keeping with Mark's feeling that the 6PPC is short on case capacity.
 
SGJennings said:
It's a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6. A 6.5 Grendel is, in turn, a 6PPC with the shoulder pushed forward. So, a 6AR is, in effect, a 6PPC long. That is in keeping with Mark's feeling that the 6PPC is short on case capacity.
Click to expand...

And.... going the other way.

If you neck A Grendel up to .30 cal, you have a .30 GR or .30 Larry, or .30 Gorilla As the case has been called here in Michigan by guys that shoot with and know Larry Feusse. My thoughts on this case is that if a .30 PPC does not have enough capacity to handle the 115 grain .30 cal bullets well, the .30 GR has a little more room for powder... not quite as much as a BR, but more than a PPC. Maybe the perfect short range score caliber?

Paul
 
pbike my point was maybe the 6AR could be tuned with a different powder(??) to be as accurate as the ppc, after all its really is just a long ppc. I think like 2grs more powder??
might be enough room to shoot a different powder and get into 3,400+ velocity range and be as accurate as the 6ppc.
Im going to work on setting up a reamer and barrel this winter and give one a try.. i just have too much going on right now..
And good quality brass is available, thats a big big plus...to.
 
pbike said:
And.... going the other way. If you neck A Grendel up to .30 cal, you have a .30 GR or .30 Larry, or .30 Gorilla
Click to expand...
Of course. I shoot a 30 Major. That's how I know a bit about the Grendel or "PPC Long" case.

pbike said:
Maybe the perfect short range score caliber?l
Click to expand...
It shoots well for me. I originally got into it to avoid buying a new bolt for my Grizzly. I liked it well enough that when I got a BR boltface action for my son, I still had the barrel chambered for the Major.

My son's rifle also has a 6BR barrel in 10 twist to shoot the new Berger 87 VLD Hunting. I'm considering getting a 6mmAR / 6mm Dune / 6mm SRB chambered for my rifle to shoot the same bullet.

Just a bit of of a brag, here is my son's rifle:

IMAG0076.jpg
 
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Mark
I really don't see any reason for the 6AR in 100 /200 yard BR. Even if it shoots as well as the 6PPC. The extra velocity is of no value if it doesn't make the cartridge Better.
But the 6PPC WILL eventually be replaced as the top cartridge in BR. Never say never.
Like I have said before one thing that the 30BR has done is to let guys know that the PPC isn't the only cartridge that can shoot group at the championship level.
I am sure there are other cartridges that can shoot at that level as well.
 
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