.30 BR powders

J

Joe Krupa

Member
I am trying, once again, to get my .30 BR shooting up to speed.

This will be my fifth try. My best that I can do with these animals is 18 X's at 100 and 249 at 200 yards. This was with 4198 in any number of 17 or 18 twist barrels. And the load was from 34.0 to 34.7 grains of the extreme 4198.

So, I've got some 10X bullets and and a new Krieger 18 twist. And we have a 200 yard score match next weekend. I have 4198, 130 and tons of 133. I was thinking of trying a full case of 133 in the cool weather here in Michigan. I filled up a case and weighed it and it was at 38.5 grains. Anyone tried this yet?

Also, where do you start with the 130? Would this be the same as with he 4198?

Going to the range tomorrow and it is supposed to be around 45 to 50 degress. I want to preload, but worried that if I fill up the case to the brim with 133 that I may blow up the gun. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Joe,

I use about 34.4 grains of H4198 behind the 115 grain 10X bullet. Using N130 I jump up to around 35 grains.

Adrian
 
Joe

Joe Krupa said:
I am trying, once again, to get my .30 BR shooting up to speed.

This will be my fifth try. My best that I can do with these animals is 18 X's at 100 and 249 at 200 yards. This was with 4198 in any number of 17 or 18 twist barrels. And the load was from 34.0 to 34.7 grains of the extreme 4198.

So, I've got some 10X bullets and and a new Krieger 18 twist. And we have a 200 yard score match next weekend. I have 4198, 130 and tons of 133. I was thinking of trying a full case of 133 in the cool weather here in Michigan. I filled up a case and weighed it and it was at 38.5 grains. Anyone tried this yet?

Also, where do you start with the 130? Would this be the same as with he 4198?

Going to the range tomorrow and it is supposed to be around 45 to 50 degress. I want to preload, but worried that if I fill up the case to the brim with 133 that I may blow up the gun. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Joe, I know of some shooters having good luck with H322. Don't know loads and seating depths but they claim better results in THIER guns with 322 than with H4198. May be worth trying. Henry Ambrose is one. Maybe he'll chime in. Logic would have it that 322 is a bit slow, especially in colder temps, but his results have proven good for him.--Mike Ezell
 
Joe, I have been using 34.7 of H4198 behind 118gr Hillbilly 7 3/4 ogive bullets, just kissing the lands in a 17 twist Krieger that Dwight chambered for me with his reamer, some people like to use lots of jam. I think Francis and Paul have used the VV130 you might ask them about that. As far as 133 goes I haven't heard of anyone trying that. It seems that this likes a tight neck tension, I use a .326 bushing with a .330 chamber. The tuning window seems to be about a mile wide. I also turn my brass to .01 so I have lots of clearance. I have had some success with this setup I still feel that I am missing something, I have shot 250 21 & 22 X's at 100, and a 250 7 X at 200 and a 247 11 X at 200, so I'm still learning I think I have 1300 rounds through this first 30br. I hope this helps.

Dan Honert
 
Barrels

from my experience it is unusual to have to go through many 30 cal barrels to find a good one. Some are a lot better than others but I have had only one in 10 years that would not shoot competatively.

I think a lot of folks jam hard and adjust powder to find their tune. I have used precise seating depth for a number of years now to find my tune.

With the advent of the tuner I have found that I can take a known load and seating depth that usually works and let the tuner find the tune for me. I am not the only one doing this. Tuners may not be the do all - end all but they sure to make things a lot easier to deal with onest one catche on to them.

The barrel currently on my VFS rifle is an OLD 1-16 Lilja that came to me in a gun trade. It had been shot for two years and discarded. I inadvertently had it fitted to my rifle and it has been just great so far. I had Jim Borden install one of his tuners on it and have been able to dial to the tune with several load combinations.

You won't see my name in the VFS winners listings as I shoot 6 power almost exclusivly but I shot it just this mornin in a howling, swirling wind here in Florida and was able to coax a .113 - 5 shot group out of it with just a slight twist of the tuner :).

On second thought, we don't need them dern tuners :).
 
H-4198, N-130, RL-7, H-322, BenchMark, and similar burn-rate powders have all proven useful: like H-4198, the N-130 is usually shot with a "case-full", or, upwards of 34.5 Gr., or, a well compressed charge. Of note, from about 32.0 Gr. up, the H-4198 usually delivers several nice 'sweet-spots'. Early on, I attained very good results using H-4227: four consecutive registered 100 Yd. (group) Aggs. between 0.201 and 0.231. Also several 100 and two hundred 100/200/Grand Agg VfS wins . . . the down-side of the H-4227: it's easy to get it a little too HOT! :eek:;) The H-4227 delivered excellent grouping at 2975 FPS - as a general rule, regardless of powder, there is a sweet-spot between 2950 and 3000 FPS, then, the next 'node' is at about 3040-3070 FPS.

It is unlikely that you'll find N-133 useful - it's less dense than H-322, which usually shoots GREAT, but, it's difficult to beat about 2920 FPS - with my Lot, this is at 37+ Gr. BenchMark was about the same as H-322 - not a wreck, but, in the velcity department, not overly exciting. I only fired a few rounds with my original ('93') Lot of N-133 - at the thirty caliber expansion ratio, it burned like charcoal . . . :eek:

If you can score some Tubal-2000 (Vectan/NobelSport), you can probably get some decent results . . . but it's difficult to find. Oh, don't forget N-120, which, like the H-4227, can readily make for excessive pressure . . . but also, if one can wrap the mind around, 'less than full case' charges, it will shoot some very decent groups/Aggs.:eek: RG
 
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Joe

In it's only two outings this year, my 30BR has shot 22 and 23 X's, once with me shooting it and once with Gene.

I have tried N130, 4198, and Norma 200. Of these, the 4198 shoots the best with the BIB 112 7 ogive. The Norma 200 is not far behind. My 4198 load is 35.2 grns, with the bullet about .010 into the lands. That's my best guess. It WILL stick a bullet if I try to pull a loaded round out. I DO NOT use a lot of neck tension with the 7 ogive BIB. Probably no more than .0015. That is probably why they will stick.

I think you will find that 133 is simply too slow. When I tried it, all I could get was big .300 globs.

Also, do not try to make the neck clearance too tight. .002 loaded round clearance seems to be the hot ticket.

I am pushing the 112's at about 3020 fps out of a 23 inch 1-18 twist Krieger. Just about every body down here is shooting the same set-up.

Have you grouped the Rifle to see just what it is actually doing?? These things will shoot small "ones" and "zeros" on an alarmingly consitant basis if it is right.

I don't know what else to say. Good Luck........jackie
 
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Joe...I had to anneal my brass 2 times before I got the results I wanted..I turn my necks to .0095" and use a .324" bushing...and 37.0 grains of H322 behind a Cheeks 118 grain 7 ogive bullet...start with a hard jam (.020") then adjust seating depth in .003" (into the case) until the groups turn into a nice tight round hole...gun handeling technique is a little different than the 6ppc..try adjusting your forend stop out some until the vertical is gone...
and when all else fails be sure to shoot only in "the let-ups"...:D
 
Joe,
For what it's worth from a rookie, a ladder test showed that the 34.8 gr load of H4198 that was recommended to me (same as recommended on 6mmBR) was right on a node, so I continued to shoot it, with 118 gr Eubers, 0.329" necks in 0.331" chamber, 0.326" bushing neck sizing only about halfway down the neck (FL sizing only when necessary), and bullets seated to show a mark about half as long as the lands. The necks spring back by about 0.001", so this bushing really only gives about 0.002" squeeze, just enough to not pull bullets if you take a loaded round out after chambering. In 10 matches (including one during which my scope fell off:eek:), I've had a couple of 22x at 100 and 13x at 200. Prolly just beginners luck, but hope this helps. I really like the 30BR. Hope you can get it to work.

Cheers,
Keith
 
R. G. Robinett said:
H-4198, N-130, RL-7, H-322, BenchMark, and similar burn-rate powders have all proven useful: like H-4198, the N-130 is usually shot with a "case-full", or, upwards of 34.5 Gr., or, a well compressed charge. Of note, from about 32.0 Gr. up, the H-4198 usually delivers several nice 'sweet-spots'. Early on, I attained very good results using H-4227: four consecutive registered 100 Yd. (group) Aggs. between 0.201 and 0.231. Also several 100 and two hundred 100/200/Grand Agg VfS wins . . . the down-side of the H-4227: it's easy to get it a little too HOT! :eek:;) The H-4227 delivered excellent grouping at 2975 FPS - as a general rule, regardless of powder, there is a sweet-spot between 2950 and 3000 FPS, then, the next 'node' is at about 3040-3070 FPS.

It is unlikely that you'll find N-133 useful - it's less dense than H-322, which usually shoots GREAT, but, it's difficult to beat about 2920 FPS - with my Lot, this is at 37+ Gr. BenchMark was about the same as H-322 - not a wreck, but, in the velcity department, not overly exciting. I only fired a few rounds with my original ('93') Lot of N-133 - at the thirty caliber expansion ratio, it burned like charcoal . . . :eek:

If you can score some Tubal-2000 (Vectan/NobelSport), you can probably get some decent results . . . but it's difficult to find. Oh, don't forget N-120, which, like the H-4227, can readily make for excessive pressure . . . but also, if one can wrap the mind around, 'less than full case' charges, it will shoot some very decent groups/Aggs.:eek: RG
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I've not shot 120 or 4227 in a 30BR but FWIW,N120 about 1/8" from the top of the neck, and a Danzac coated 118 gr Hillbilly bullet is the ticket in my 30 Major. I have shot 4227 with good results but don't recommend it because of how fast it can spike. 4227 and extreme caution go hand in hand. After all, it's considered a pistol powder, but that's where extremely efficient rifle cartridges can put you. ---Mike Ezell
 
In all of the 30BR's that I've had it takes 1 gr. more of VV130 to get the same velocity as H4198 and in some barrels it really makes them come alive. So to answer your question use 1 gr. more of the 130 than you have been using of the 4198. Steve
 
H4198 works for me

Picture048-1.jpg


The Brx below is loaded nearly the same just more powder (37.1) to get into a upper node, and I increased jam to .030in and the groups tightened up a little more (Thanks R.G.).
Picture062.jpg
 
Joe Krupa said:
Is the 133 idea a non-starter?
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Joe
I have processed a few hundred sets of Equipment lists over the last 5 years and I do not ever remember seeing a 30BR using N133 on the lists at all let alone as a top finisher. So I would say yes N133 is a non starter.

Dick
 
H322 in the .30BR

I'm shooting H322 and liking it a lot. I tried 4198 twice for a couple of months each time because its supposed to be "the powder" in a 30BR, but it does not work as well in my rifle as H322. I'm shooting 118 gr. 10 ogive BIBs jammed HARD and can about fill the case up to the base of the bullet but a little less shoots best. I think my rifle shoots very well but I can still figure out plenty of ways to get beat.

My barrel is a Krieger 1-18 fitted by Dwight Scott. The barrel is a shallow rifled version which was the only one they had in stock when I needed it. Dwight said it should be OK, so I took his word for it as most any sane BR shooter would do.

I do think H322 works best when its hot outside. I noticed I usually shot better in the afternoon when the temps warmed up. So last year I was bringing my ammo in a styrofoam cooler with a hot water bottle inside to keep the ammo at or near 100 degrees all day long. I think it works and will do it again this year. I might just be superstitious....... Or might not.
 
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Joe,

Are you using the old yellow gun? A few thoughts...

Hal Drake suggested that I use 4198 a couple of years ago and it worked great for me. Once I got a load I used the tuner to adjust for conditions. I always shoot off a hard jam but, since I use only moly, that may not be important to you.

Try hanging on to the gun as opposed to free recoil. A 30BR jumps around more when fired. It just worked better for me. Make sure it weighs 13-1/2 lbs. or as close as you can. More important in a 30. I would make sure that your bags aren't super hard. This things is a different animal than a PPC sporter and has to be handled a little differently.

I used Euber and Randy's bullets and found both to be excellent.

I have shot 22 X's with this set-up... a 249 - 22X, the current Harrison range record for high X count ineptitude. This with the old red sleeved Rem. that I got from Hottensteins via Dwight.

Good luck,

Dick
 
One Other Thing

Based on my own observations, I think loaded round straightness is a big factor with the 30's. When I first put my 30BR together, It didn't shoot quite as good as some of the others hanging around the range. I was using a popular brand seater that is common in Benchrest. I then took a Redding 308 die, chopped it off, and singlepoint bored the sliding sleeve chamber assy to tighten things up. The die combo now makes rounds that are less than .001, and the Rifle is very consistant.

Just something else to check......jackie
 
30 br

Joe,
If you have not shot Benchrest before now I think 18 is a good start at 100yds. and if you don't have flags then 249 is good for 200 yds. If you have shot group you will find out that score is alot different. How you hold a 30BR rifle has a lot to do with how it shoots. I have been shooting a 30 BR for about 2 years and I am learning something new everyday.
John
Fla.
 
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