3" wide forend on a "factory" class rig/ unfair advantage???

333smitty

333smitty

Tomball Gun Club
From the Savage target spec sheet, "Stock Gray laminate with 3" wide ventilated forend with flat bottom"

One of the major advantages of shooting a full blown Benchrest rifle is the 3" flat forend.

Does anyone feel that having a "factory" rifle with 3" flat forend has a unfair advantage over a competitor shooting a "factory" rifle with a rounded type forend???
 
Lew is right....

If it came from the factory available off the rack; it's factory. If someone feels any factory furnished rifle is an unfair advantage, tell them to buy one.

In the benchrest game if one feels a "joy stick" front rest is an advantage, we buy one. If we feel a frozen scope with external adjustment bases are an advantage, be better buy one. And if we feel moisture in the barrel is a deterrent, we ask a certain individual to blow some hot air through it. Goes on and on.

I tell the factory shooters at my matches that no matter what equipment one has, this is a test of shooting skill. That involves reloading talent, wind reading ability, and gun handling.

If equipment quality alone won sports contests we'd all be buying Ping golf clubs and be earning some REAL money.:rolleyes:

Still seeking a 250 this season,
Virg
 
no, it is not an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, it IS in compliance with the rules.

is it an advantage, yes.

do you have a 3" flat on your benchrest rifle ? do you consider IT an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE ?....no 'cause it is part of the rules.......just like in factory rifle.

the world is not fair,
learn to deal with it.


mike in co
 
333smitty said:
Does anyone feel that having a "factory" rifle with 3" flat forend has a unfair advantage over a competitor shooting a "factory" rifle with a rounded type forend???
Click to expand...

It may be an unfair advantage but Factory is Factory, if you cannot beat them join them, buy yourself one.

Dick
 
Vic ...

333smitty said:
From the Savage target spec sheet, "Stock Gray laminate with 3" wide ventilated forearm with flat bottom"

One of the major advantages of shooting a full blown Benchrest rifle is the 3" flat forearm.

Does anyone feel that having a "factory" rifle with 3" flat foreend has a unfair advantage over a competitor shooting a "factory" rifle with a rounded type forearm???
Click to expand...

Like the gentleman before me said: Factory is Factory. The only one who may think something is unfair is the one with the less shooting and wind reading skills. Here are questions to think about. What if Savage decided to make a "production rifle" that met all of the specifications of a Kelbly built LV rig and sold it as an off-the-shelf rifle. Would that still be a Factory rifle ??? Would that be fair ??? Or, moving backwards, How "POORLY BUILT does a rifle have to be" to be considered a "factory" rifle ??? How are we going to define poorly ??? At what high or low point do we consider skilled craftsmanship as the defining point between classes ??? Art
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some clubs allow shooters to use accuracy assets attached to the fore end to level the playing field. Sinclair has them for a nominal fee.
 
Thinking of flat factory stocks.

A buddy of mine bought a beautiful Winchester in 25WSSM which came from the factory with a 3 inch wide forearm... I highly doubt that thing will shoot four inch groups at one hundred yards. It turned out to be an $800 piece of junk.
 
There is a post in the Rimfire section and a while ago here that asked what can we do to increase shooters participation. Here is a perfect example. A wide fore end factory and some folks say its unfair because of the fore end. Yet it is factory and in turn a new shooter get one and he or she are harrassed because of it and they drop out. I have seen this happen and you wonder why people don't come back. People be greatful that a shooter comes out to take part and wants to get involved and get that itch. I have seen many sports ruined by the rule makers to suit them and a few others. We need to be flexible but relize we need all commers.
 
What's fair?

At the risk of being redundant, this is part of my post from another current thread.


Would it be so far from the realm of possibility: some clubs in the same general area get together and for a little while, set aside egos etc, and compromise a little on their rules as to what actually constitutes a "factory class gun"? Would this not allow MORE guns to be shot at MORE ranges which would benefit MORE clubs? I feel sure a lot of us IBS guys have something just sitting in the closet they would love to shoot as a second gun at a registered match. Dublin (M.G.G.O.A.)used to hold club level AND registered IBS matches at the same time and I thought they worked pretty darn well. They sure got me hooked!

Just a thought.
 
Unfair advantage

I don't think Vic stated the 3" forearm was an advantage. He just asked if others thought it was. Only one stated "It may be an unfair advantage but Factory is Factory, if you cannot beat them join them, buy yourself one."

I don't think it matters much to tell Vic to buy one if he feels it is unfair. Vic is a "Benchrest" shooter with multiple "Benchrest" rifles. He indeed was the Tomball "Shooter of the year" winner.

I also sort of agree with the statement "It may be an unfair advantage but Factory is Factory, if you cannot beat them join them, buy yourself one." However, that is not much consolation to the guy who brings out his deer rifle and shoots a 210 to 230 score. He is the guy you will never see again most likely.
Btw, I am neither factory or benchrest, I have been shooting the modified class.

Joe
 
Joe you are exactly right about not seing that shooter again. I have been shooting at Carters Country for years. This last year I have gotten a couple of guys to come to the match. There are a number of others that say they want to come out & shoot. havent seen them yet,but I am confident we will. I have told them all that there gun would be competetive in factory class. If the gentlemen with the savage shows up,they wont come close & I feel like I have been misleading everyone.
It seems most everyone's take on the is go buy one. Most of the stock shooters dont have the money. So it seems it all comes back to the money. This is my biggest obstical in Benchrest. russell m
 
Last nite in the debate, Mr. Obama said that he was all about being "fair". Everything has to be "fair". So I guess the Feds/Congress will eventually decide what kind of fore end is "fair".
Bob
 
Unfair advantage

"However, that is not much consolation to the guy who brings out his deer rifle and shoots a 210 to 230 score. He is the guy you will never see again most likely."

These are the guys that we really need to keep coming back to the range. If he can shoot 210-230, killing a deer is no problem. Just the fact he is at the range says he wants to shoot. BUt, they need to shoot with guys in their class and that is where the rub comes. Accuracy assets on deer rifles can really help with the scores at the range, but that is only one of a blue million other considerations in this "damn aggravating sport". My first match was a 231 with a borrowed rifle. But I had some good friends who provided lots of good help and advice and convinced me to continue.


Btw, I am neither factory or benchrest, I have been shooting the modified class."

Needless to say, there is a good reasons(s) full blown benchrest rifles have wide flat stocks
 
I dont know the answer but this sort of thing also puts pressure on the guy/guys organizing the shoots.There is enough to do running a match by the rules without them coping more pressure.Is factory going to loose organizers their interest if it starts becoming a sh#t fight.The new guy needs to learn to compete with himself and if he catches the disease great if not such is life.
 
This is exactly why Factory class is such a difficult subject and should be left to each club to decide. What works at my club may not work at yours.
 
McKinnie

Well, that guy is me. I started this whole thing with the idea that I would have three classes, Factory, Modified, and all out Benchrest. I intended Factory to be just that, saying that the only thing you could do to the Rifle was bed it, and adjust the trigger if it had adjustments.

Back in my Boat Racing Days, a lot of guys raced those Jet Pump Boats. They had a Factory Class as well, untill it was made evident that a "Factory" boat with a Big Chevy Rat Motor would run off and leave a boat with the 455 Olds Engine. So, they made a class for each.

Then 'Factories" started offerring open exaust. They would beat the closed exaust boats. They then had to deal with that.

Then Berkely started started building pumps to compete with the Jacuzzi, and a factory boat with a 455 olds and a Berkely Pump would out run a boat with a Juccuzzi pump and a Big Chevy.

I am not sure if they ever determined that a boat with a red paint job would out run a boat with a blue paint job.

See how convoluted all of this gets.

I will figure out something.......JACKIE
 
Jackie.
If there is anything I can do to help please let me know. You shouldn't have to do all the work. russell m
 
Exactly what does Factory mean. That the company has a catalogue, or
employs 200 people, also makes parking meters and typewriters. Maybe
it came in a box.
One main purpose of Factory, is to initiate people to BR. Another
big reason is to maximize shooter turn out. Few of these guys want
to begin with a second mortgage , before firing a shot.
What if H&S precision stamped "Factory Target Rifle" on there guns.
They would be legal right? Most Factories have higher offerings and
many can be counted on to perform better, and do. For every
shooter you gain by allowing those in classes born with less
sofistication, you will lose two. Create a class for them, but keep
entry level classes simple and inexpensive. I have been in the middle
of this same problem in at least 4 clubs. The club must survive
or no one has a place to shoot.
 
jackie,
at my club almost everyone shoots all four classes.
but,
you could run a single match with the simple rule one class per shooter.
they all shoot together but in thier own class.
sorta like SCCA does at sports car races. multiple races with in a race, like LeMans.

mike in co
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top