3" wide forend on a "factory" class rig/ unfair advantage???

Joe Duke said:
I don't think Vic stated the 3" forearm was an advantage. He just asked if others thought it was. Only one stated "It may be an unfair advantage but Factory is Factory, if you cannot beat them join them, buy yourself one."

I don't think it matters much to tell Vic to buy one if he feels it is unfair. Vic is a "Benchrest" shooter with multiple "Benchrest" rifles. He indeed was the Tomball "Shooter of the year" winner.

I also sort of agree with the statement "It may be an unfair advantage but Factory is Factory, if you cannot beat them join them, buy yourself one." However, that is not much consolation to the guy who brings out his deer rifle and shoots a 210 to 230 score. He is the guy you will never see again most likely.
Btw, I am neither factory or benchrest, I have been shooting the modified class.

Joe
Click to expand...

joe,
my comment was on his wording. if he just asked it the flat forearm was an ADVANDAGE, i would have never commented. he asked if it was an UNFAIR advantage,,,,how can it be UNFAIR, if it is in the rules ?
can you see what i'm saying ?
mike
 
Factory "BENCHREST" Rifles

After witnessing Faron Fredrick dominating the factory competitors (248-10x) with his Savage Target 308. I wanted to see what made this rig perform so well.
This rig has all the right components a B/R stock, a useable trigger, good action and a barrel that performs. I'm pretty sure Faron had a Weaver 36x mounted on it which makes this rig a real winner....Lets not forget Faron
is obviously a very talented competitor.
I did not start this thread trying to put the rifle in a negative light. I was so
impressed with this rifle as was Jackie that I just wanted to stimulate discussion.
I would like to see Rem, Ruger, and Browning come out their own version
of a factory Benchrest rifle. Maybe Sako will come out with a 6PPC factory
BENCHREST offering...:D:D:D
 
Mike

"joe,
my comment was on his wording. if he just asked it the flat forearm was an ADVANDAGE, i would have never commented. he asked if it was an UNFAIR advantage,,,,how can it be UNFAIR, if it is in the rules ?
can you see what i'm saying ?
mike"

I understand completely what you are saying. I was not necessarily aiming at you or anyone else for that matter. Nor do I have any fault with his wording whether it be "unfair advantage" or just "advantage". I just thought it funny that there were postings telling Vic to go buy one if he thought so. Go look at Vic's backbround first.

Also, I think implied in Vic's question was "are the rules adequate" or "are they correct". We all (well most of the time) play within the rules as they are written and win or lose as it may be. Got no problem with that either.

have fun,
Joe
 
My take on it would be that factory class is just that. The problem with over regulating it is that you already discourage new shooters by adding rules about what production rifles can have and can't have. If someone shows up with a rem, win, ruger,savage etc rifle because he heard factory rifles are allowed in there own class and then finds out that the rules snub his outfit, he won't be back. The arguement that one rifle, stock or whatever is an advantage is an inherent problem of factory class, but should be accepted as part of the game. A scope level could be used as a counter balance to the 3" forend and the next 3" wide forend on a savage may not have a barrel near as good. We cannot ban rifles or reclass them because they have great barrels or 3" forends. The true meaning of Benchrest shooting is to attain the ultimate in accuracy and having a factory class means you have to read flags, learn how to reload precision ammo and focus with a factory rifle.
The advantage to this is that the factories who are interested in this market can build varmint/target rifles with this game in mind as well as varmint shooters without worrying about everyone banning there rifles from competition because of some accuracy advantage[????]. Remington used to look at this sport to see how they could improve and right now savage has adopted some of this sports ideas, this is positive and will lead to factories possibly promoting this sport as well as ther rifles.
As far as guys shooting there deer rifles and leaving because they can't compete, is that really happening [serious question]? Most deer hunters that I know shoot no more than 10 rounds a year and if they can hit a pie plate at 100 yds with the cheaper ammo, they are tickled pink.
 
Jackie, here is my take

The F-Class Savage is a factory gun. No doubt. But does it allow YOU to do what want to in your club matches, mainly get new shooters with varmint or deer rifles to try and shoot a few times without getting discouraged. The VHA Jamboree is having the same issues. It has 2 factory classes that are now almost overrun with this gun. What happens is this. Everyone else sees that they are disadvantaged and dont play anymore. Although the Savage shooters of this gun have played the system, they are also in effect ruining it. Jackie and Janet asked my advice. Here is what I told them.

Make a rule that the class has a few more stipulations than "Factory". After all, our competition classes do too. Define factory class as what you have and add a weight and stock definition to allow most of the other guns you want and eliminate the unfair advantage guns that will discourage the masses. Put a 10 or 11 pound limit on it and disallow any stocks over 2.3 inches wide on front and require a 5 or 10 degree on back. Pretty easy. Good luck on this. Do what you think is right to get the masses shooting. A few will always be pissed off, take that to the bank and dont worry about it.
 
Another Approach..

Savage has brought out a factory rifle that is a "beter mouse trap". Let them compete unobstructed. This will force the other makers to also improve their mouse trap.
Rustystud
 
Your right

Hi Jackie , i could not agree more with Stiller ,we are just introducing a factory/ Varmint class into Long Range benchrest in my state .. Rules are real simple , main ones of interest here are = 1 / a factory stock with a max forend width of 2.5ins (reason is some factory Varmint stocks measured only just smaller than this) 2/ Rifle weight will be restricted to 12 lbs all up including scope and attachments (only the special Tac rifles and the Savage F rifles are heavier)..Even if another manufacturer came out with a big stocked ,30in long target barrel rifle i think it would still be heavier than 12 lbs once you put a proper scope on it.. We wanted this a a base introductory class to attract the local hunting /varmint shooter that would like to get his feet wet in LRBR.. This has worked in my area so far ..JR..Jeff Rogers.. the other guns are welcolme to compete side by side with the rest of the 17 lbs Light Guns as all other guns have had to until we introduced this new class
stiller said:
The F-Class Savage is a factory gun. No doubt. But does it allow YOU to do what want to in your club matches, mainly get new shooters with varmint or deer rifles to try and shoot a few times without getting discouraged. The VHA Jamboree is having the same issues. It has 2 factory classes that are now almost overrun with this gun. What happens is this. Everyone else sees that they are disadvantaged and dont play anymore. Although the Savage shooters of this gun have played the system, they are also in effect ruining it. Jackie and Janet asked my advice. Here is what I told them.

Make a rule that the class has a few more stipulations than "Factory". After all, our competition classes do too. Define factory class as what you have and add a weight and stock definition to allow most of the other guns you want and eliminate the unfair advantage guns that will discourage the masses. Put a 10 or 11 pound limit on it and disallow any stocks over 2.3 inches wide on front and require a 5 or 10 degree on back. Pretty easy. Good luck on this. Do what you think is right to get the masses shooting. A few will always be pissed off, take that to the bank and dont worry about it.
Click to expand...
 
factory class

I belive that the VHA states that a Factory must produce 15,000 firearms a year to be classified as FACTORY any less was Custom.It's been some time since I've looked at the rules for their Jamborees but that stuck in my mind anyhow.
 
Wlouie said:
"However, that is not much consolation to the guy who brings out his deer rifle and shoots a 210 to 230 score. He is the guy you will never see again most likely."

Some sports have subclasses, like Beginner, Intermediate and Master, that allow the competitor that is still developing his/her skills to compete with his/her peers, rather than having to compete with the top dogs. How about for score shooting: Beginner - up to 200, Intermediate - 210 to 240, Master 250. Any new shooter is classed by his/her first score. Afterwards, whenever he/she scores in the next class a number of times, say twice, they move up permanently.
Click to expand...
 
factory

l think factory sporter and varmint only change would
be 11lbs.and don't worry about the stock...
just the thoughts of an old fart.....
JonD.
 
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