243 ten twist

L

LASER

Guest
Would it be ill advised to let the kids bust up bad shootin' short range br bullets in a 243 ten twist? Concern here being the bbl. Have mostly 65 grain fb. I'm thinking it would be excellent for off hand instructions. Just a little change from the 22lr. Right away my mind goes to buying a Vixen ppc. Next image in my mind is the Missus looking rather stern. Not that it REALLY matters.....

LASER
 
LASER said:
Would it be ill advised to let the kids bust up bad shootin' short range br bullets in a 243 ten twist? Concern here being the bbl. Have mostly 65 grain fb. I'm thinking it would be excellent for off hand instructions. Just a little change from the 22lr. Right away my mind goes to buying a Vixen ppc. Next image in my mind is the Missus looking rather stern. Not that it REALLY matters.....

LASER
Click to expand...

What is your actual question? What could possibly be "bad" about it?

I've fired thousands of light bullets through 7.5" and 8" twists.

Rotational energy being "free" they make spectacular mist shots on meat......like bombs.

But what exactly is your "concern?"
 
No concerns in a 10 twist barrel. It might amaze you how well it will shoot at about 3500 FPS.

I know for a fact that you can explode 52 grn 22 caliber match bullets at 3600 FPS out of a 7 twist barrel. But you will well below the RPM that a 6mm 68 grn bullet will come apart out of a 10 twist.
 
Did not think it thru..or phrase question properly

alinwa said:
What is your actual question? What could possibly be "bad" about it?

I've fired thousands of light bullets through 7.5" and 8" twists.

Rotational energy being "free" they make spectacular mist shots on meat......like bombs.

But what exactly is your "concern?"
Click to expand...

Since the "recommended/ideal" twist rate according to the Berger chart is 14 was thinking without thinking that possibly copper the hell out of things, blow up bullets, not be accurate because of the jump etc. One example is the number of times I have read about coppering. I assumed it was because they are shooting at warp speed.This is what I thought would occur with a .243 Factory gun probally throated for longer bullets. Many concepts and things I do regarding reloading I do because I am told by those who know as apposed to actually grasping why. Many times I read conversation about things on this board,coincidently by yous two guys, that intrigue me and send me to ask someone else.. Sorta like to spread the pestering, if you will, around. Sometimes I act or sound dumber than I am thanks to meds.
Thank you for your informative as always responses.

LASER
 
LASER said:
Since the "recommended/ideal" twist rate according to the Berger chart is 14 was thinking without thinking that possibly copper the hell out of things, blow up bullets, not be accurate because of the jump etc. One example is the number of times I have read about coppering. I assumed it was because they are shooting at warp speed.This is what I thought would occur with a .243 Factory gun probally throated for longer bullets. Many concepts and things I do regarding reloading I do because I am told by those who know as apposed to actually grasping why. Many times I read conversation about things on this board,coincidently by yous two guys, that intrigue me and send me to ask someone else.. Sorta like to spread the pestering, if you will, around. Sometimes I act or sound dumber than I am thanks to meds.
Thank you for your informative as always responses.

LASER
Click to expand...

OK.....a few things.

-Yes, ideal is 14 twist in the pertinent velocity ranges and at elevations and temperatures normally encountered.....marginal, but stable. All this means is, the faster you spin an un-balanced object the harder it is for it to wobble consistently. One answer is, "shoot BIB's, they're so steenkin' centered you can't MAKE 'em wobble!"

-There is no, nada, zero reason the tighter twist will "copperfoul more" nor "build pressure" nor even "exhibit more worser aerodynamic jump" (this last is really quite laughable, but I know from whence the info came . . . . and won't comment on it)

-And there is a whole stableful of other speculative fiction regarding "over-stabilization" (don't get me started on bullets "flying nose high" ALA Rupprecht-Nunnstiel) I've watched guys drop bullets down through vertical targets from 20degrees 1K out and claim that the eccentric holes meant something other than......well, the bullets hitting the paper at a 20* angle...

-Bullets might blow up. YUP :) bullets might blow up. And they might spew... I've popped and leaked a TON of 'em... but they also might NOT, so's ya' gotta' try. IME, 7 different .243AI barrels, same-same loads/bullets, three blew up bullets. So what, no damage. Except to the wallet.

-They will spin up and slip the cores sometimes.....some WILL fail if you run 'em hard enough. But so what. Some won't. You blow up a Nosler Ballistic Tip I wanna' hear about it!

-Coppering? Back to coppering..... Man... (liddle Calfeeism there) ... this is a big subject. Let's just leave it at "IMO TWIST ITSELF has nothing to do with it." If the barrel does copper, big deal. Ya got Some Montana Extreme for that....right?

So, my question remains.....if'n it ain't gonna' BREAK nuttin' why not try it??


LOL

al
 
If this helps...
About 15 years ago I rebarreled my marksman stocked, severely throated pre-'64 model 70 with a 24" 10 twist Hart HV barrel and chambered it in 6mm-284. Other than the match grade barrel and a trigger job, the gun was unmodified. Just to see how it would behave, I loaded my own 66 grain, J-4 jacketed, 100% lead cored culls and worked up to 57 grains of a powder I won't name here. The bullets weren't even in the same zip code as the lands. The velocity was astonishing. Surprisingly, accuracy was good, with 5 shot groups at around .350 - .400". It did not copper foul enough to speak of, and all shots fired reached the target intact. Around that time groundhogs were persistently occupying the underside of the old shed which is about 40 yards from my shop door. After the ol' Winchester caused the first one to expire, I leaned an old flat shovel against the corner of the shed. From then on, this was the drill: Fire the shot, go and get the shovel, and scoop up the varmint. FWIW, I don't think any of them would have argued that those BR bullets didn't work perfectly at very high velocities.

-Dave-
 
Over thinking things

has been the bane to my happiness most of my life.Sometimes this maniacal tendency has served me well as a professional. In product development,"what if" becomes the word of the day. I drove colleagues nuts for years because of it despite saving our arses on ocasion. In meetings, my comments were the ones causing the eye rolls and invectives. Thanks for putting things into thier proper perspective.
LASER
 
LASER said:
has been the bane to my happiness most of my life.Sometimes this maniacal tendency has served me well as a professional. In product development,"what if" becomes the word of the day. I drove colleagues nuts for years because of it despite saving our arses on ocasion. In meetings, my comments were the ones causing the eye rolls and invectives. Thanks for putting things into thier proper perspective.
LASER
Click to expand...

I've been accused of "over-thinking things" all my life.

I don't accept that "over-thinking" is even possible.

In fact the old "analysis paralysis" conundrum originates from simple folks THINKING they're thinking when in fact they're just spinning in place....endlessly ruminating. Coupled with abject fear of the unknown.


"2% of the people think,

3% of the people THINK they think,

and 95% of the people would rather die than think"
--------------attributed to George Bernard Shaw
 
What really sucks is

until I did not need the job or the money and was really able to say what was on my mind was I able to make an impact. A phone call to the engineer who did not listen to me was home at a cookout while I was spent most of a sleepless weekend dealing with issues directly caused by his disregard and scorn of my observations."Customer Delight", don't you know. This F----R was gonna ship Monday. Mr. Daniels helped with the arse chewing.Thenceforce a caller ID from my extension to engeneering made thier blood run cold until my retirement several years later. Often wish I was able to put things as would Messers. Shaw, Wilde, Twain, Disraeli and Churchill. One would have to be in the company of those who would understand, which for the most part has been my sadness. I have never been able to countenance buffoons nor have I been able to deal with them in a civil manner.Thank you sincerely for your kind endorsement!
LASER
 
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