1000yd Bench Gun

B

bcarico

Guest
First i would like to say that I am a newbie at the 1000yd game. Most of my benchrest experiences comes from 100 200 and 300. I have shot one 1000yd match back in 08 using a borrowed rifle at Hawks Ridge in Wilksboro NC. I am Wanting to get something together to shoot at Butner NC next year. I have a Donor 700 LA and a 700 SA. The SA is in a Stolle style action sleeve. I am wanting a to shoot the light gun class to get started. Leaning toward the Mcmillan MBR Stock. With a Hart Barrel most likely. and Nightforce 12x42x56 Benchrest. I am Just really up in the air on Caliber looked at everything from a 6 dasher to 6.5x284, to 308Norma maybe even 300wsm. I don't mind working brass. I'll run it through two dies and shoot it twice if i have to lol. I am most interested in Accuracy. Forming brass, Recoil ect... Doesn't matter to me as long as it shoots. Any advice will be appreciated!

Thanks
Brandon
 
Brandon, any of the chamberings you mention is capable of winning, consistently, at a 1,000 yard match. I know that doesn't address your question; doesn't help you. But it is the truth. Statistically, over many years, the .30 probably holds more wins. But that's a numbers game, statistically, over the years, there have been more .30s shot. Recently, the 6mms have done very well, and there is a move toward them, so statistically, in the recent past, they have done better. But that's just the same anomaly.

What wins long-range benchrest is bullets, barrels, and care in loading. The barrel is pure luck -- the more you buy, the luckier you get. Bullets are more under your control. As with short-range benchrest, custom bullets offer the greatest advantage. Not because the best custom is better than the best Berger/Sierra/Hornady. They're not. But the commercial plants have greater variance, and it shows up.

Reloading is key. Things are bigger in every regard. If there is to be variance in something, you pick not only what shoots best, but what has the least change of going wrong. Just what that is depends on skill & tooling & even a somewhat personal understanding of what matters.

There is a human element as well. All the chamberings you mention come with compromises. After a bit, you'll wonder what the other end of the spectrum would be like -- if you shoot a 6mm, you'll wonder if a .30 might not be better. Or vice versa. Most of us have been down that path.

One thought I have is that if you've been shooting point blank, you have some tools that are caliber specific. If you've shot group, likely 6mm. If score, likely .30. It will be a tad less expensive, and your learning curve may go a little faster, if you move to 1K using the same caliber (not chambering, though).

Hope to see you at Butner next year. Look any of us up & we'll offer what help we can.
 
charles and the rest....
how long does a dasher bbl last ??
i built a 300 win mag because it was time tried and true....but it cost more to shoot...bullet cost and powder volume.

at the dasher level , less powder and less for bullets.......

just one thing to consider.

mike in co
 
Some of the guys have gotten 2000 rounds out of their Dashers and still had benchrest accuracy. Matt
 
dk hunt 14 said:
Some of the guys have gotten 2000 rounds out of their Dashers and still had benchrest accuracy. Matt
Click to expand...
Matt, it would be most helpful if you've give the other extreme too. With a PPC, you see reports of 700 or so to "way over 2,000." My gut feeling is you can count on 1,000 for a Dasher, and may get more. I haven't shot one yet. Gut feeling only. I *usually* get 1,500 with a PPC, but I don't shoot 31 grains of N-133 either.

The other thing with any 6mm is whether or not you sight in with pits. If you're shooting clay birds on a dirt bank, it can be hard to see the bullet strike with a 6mm (first hand experience, 2 years with a 6 Ackley).

Secondly, 1K BR pays for both group and score. Contrary to a lot of what's said, I think the 6mms can stay with the .30s or even the .338s for group, even in a 20 mph wind. Score is a somewhat different proposition.
 
Brandon

Like Charles, I'm an old, half-blind 1000 yard shooter. What he says is correct. The "best" cartridge and rifle is the one that wins. As he said, it's primarily the bullet, barrel, and load technique that counts. But, even that doesn't always hold true. As I remember, one of the very first NBRSA National Championships (and a few other lesser tournaments) was won with a factory Rem 40 X in 300 Win Mag. Of course, it could have been that the shooter was simply better than all the rest of us. So don't forget to factor that into the equation. There are times when skill trumps everything else. Probably more often than we care to admit. After all, we have to justify all those $$$ somehow. ;)

Ray
 
Charles E said:
Matt, it would be most helpful if you've give the other extreme too. With a PPC, you see reports of 700 or so to "way over 2,000." My gut feeling is you can count on 1,000 for a Dasher, and may get more. I haven't shot one yet. Gut feeling only. I *usually* get 1,500 with a PPC, but I don't shoot 31 grains of N-133 either.

The other thing with any 6mm is whether or not you sight in with pits. If you're shooting clay birds on a dirt bank, it can be hard to see the bullet strike with a 6mm (first hand experience, 2 years with a 6 Ackley).

Secondly, 1K BR pays for both group and score. Contrary to a lot of what's said, I think the 6mms can stay with the .30s or even the .338s for group, even in a 20 mph wind. Score is a somewhat different proposition.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt be quick to denote what Matt Is saying, the guy holds the Heavy Gun World record and has won about every agg at Williamsport. He also shoots a dasher from time to time. Good day.
 
The Dasher was my first choice. I fully understand what you are saying. If I go the Dasher route Do you think my 700 SA that is sleeved would be suffice for this?

Thanks
Brandon
 
my rem 700 la is not sleeved........so you maybe ahead of some of us....

mike in co
 
Not wanting to open a can of worms......but........

I'd peddle the 700's and build on a custom action.

More specifically, a dual port Bat.

Speed kills......at both extremes.
 
It's a very good point alf.

One of the pluses of the small 6mms is the rate at which you can shoot. A dual port or drop port (doesn't have to be a BAT) lets you take a bit bigger advantage of that strength. I noticed when I went to a .338 that I couldn't shoot anywhere near as fast. (The .338, even a smallish one like I shoot, has different strengths.)

The general point is that all the chamberings have pluses and minuses; when you pick one, it is wise to take full advantage of what your choice offers.
 
Any and ALL info is very appreciated. I just got off the phone with a very helpful gentleman at Baity's Custom Gunworks. I am going to talk to him in person this Saturday. So hopefully I will have the ball rolling on this project! I figure some things I will just have to learn through trial and error. So I will hopefully see some of you at Butner next year!!

Thanks
Brandon
 
Also i wanted to ask... I have a Caldwell Rock BR Front rest. Could it be useable at 1000 or is it junk? Tell me the truth even if it may hurt my wallet. If it is useable I do plan to upgrade. But if it will get me started I will be able to look around at the matches and see witch one I would like to upgrade to..

Thanks Again
Brandon
 
What are the conditions like at Butner NC where you want to shoot? What do the local hotshots use there?
If it is one of the protected, easy conditions ranges, they would probably use small tack drivers.
If it is a windy, open range with regular switching conditions, they probably use something which bucks the wind better?

I,m pondering what caliber to try next and since I will mainly be shooting on a very tricky range, I will be looking for something bigger than my super accurate 6mm Dasher.
 
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Rooshooter

Here is a link to the match 9 equipment list

http://www.northcarolina1000.com/match-9.html

No help there, people use everything Brandon mentioned & more (you'll notice I cleverly picked a match where I did well).

Thomas Ellington has been more than a regular winner with his 6mm Dasher. Chris Collins may be leading the club points again this year, and shoots a .300 WSM, Scott Fletcher has done a lot of winning with his .338s. Moreover, the Butner group is what remains of the old Hawks Ridge club; people who shoot there are quite dedicated, and have been at it a long time. "Been at it a long time" = more .30s than you might find a at newer club.

As always, it is barrels and bullets and good shooting. One thing I'll mention about match 9. We had short-range type wind flags, raised to bullet height, running down the center of the range at 900, 800, 600, 400 and 300 yards. Both Scott Fletcher & I admit we used them. Not like a short range shooter. For me, I noticed in the HG shootoff that the wind changed about 120 degrees just as the record period began. I waited until the wind direction changed back to what we had in the sighter period & ran my shots a as fast as I could. It was a seven inch group where the others were in double digits. It was also almost off the paper, but that didn't matter for a group shootoff. Scott Fletcher was the brave one, he actually stopped shooting when the wind changed, & resumed when the prevailing condition returned. I wouldn't have had the guts, but this time anyway, it paid off for him.

Brandon is in good hands with Leonard Baity. Leonard won't dictate chambering choice, but if you ask & listen closely, I'm sure he'll tell you his preferences.

It pays to listen. For example, suppose you wanted a .30. Leonard has an awfully good .300 Ackley reamer, and an awfully good .308 Norma reamer. If someone were to pick Dave Tooley as their gunsmith, he has a hummer of a .30 BooBoo reamer. (1) Both smiths have built a number of shooter-of-the year level rifles in these chamberings. (2) The .30 BooBoo has almost exactly the same case capacity as the .308 Norma.

So that's a tip -- pick you gunsmith & listen to them.
 
Was at Baity's shop yesterday for about 3 hours. I learned a lot! Went with a 6 dasher with a .272 no turn neck. I thought the price was very reasonable so I paid him in full. He gave me a good time frame on completion. Just got to decide between the Nightforce and Sightron and I'll be rolling!!

Thanks
Brandon
 
Brandon,

Looking forward to seeing you at the Butner matches next season. In case you don't have it, here is the link to the NC 1K BR site

http://www.northcarolina1000.com/index.html

Remember we're shooting two matches in one day, and that you can shoot HG with your LG without taking off the muzzle brake (if you're even using one).

As you might remember, LG is 5 record shot, HG 10. I'd allow 4 rounds per relay for sighters, and 10 for the first target, where you might not be on paper. So, even if you don't win a single relay, that's about 50 rounds. If you win every relay you're in, that's another 46 rounds. I know it sounds unlikely, but it has happened. That would mean you could need about 100 rounds.

There is very little time to reload. Unlike Hawks Ridge, Butner has pits, so there is pit duty. One shortcut I've used is to have sized, charged cases, with the bullet placed upside down (not seated). That way, if you don't win relays & want to test in the intervening month, easy enough. If you do win, just seat bullets and you're good to go. But this does mean you need 100 cases prepped for match shooting.

Looking forward to it,

Charles
 
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Charles,
I don't believe that the "breaks allowed in HG" deal is carved in stone.....yet. Don't the masses need to vote that one in at the Annual IBS meeting? I am pretty sure this was a one year trial.

Just wonderin,
Tod
 
Tod, believe you're right. IIRC though, it's never happened that the membership rejected a temporary rule. One was restored in Point-Blank (the no moving the tuner while at the bench rule), but that took an extra year & new petition.

Anyway, it all depends on what happens with the vote.
 
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