Nylon vs. Bronze

T

tiny68

Member
Hi guys. First, my apologies. This is not a BR question, but I wanted to ask from the guys that really care about their bores. Will a bronze brush harm a barrel, SS or CM? That is all I have ever used, with a proper bore guide. I don't ever remember seeing a nylon brush at a match. A group of guys from a different reloading forum are convinced that nylon is the only way to go and that bronze somehow harms the bore. I don't buy it.

What's the truth?

tiny
 
One of the oldest of all old wives tales. How can a bronze brush hurt a stainless or CM barrel thats (50) points harder.In a factory barrel(unlapped) tool marks are usually radial in nature. They go across the lands. In a Benchrest quality barrel, depending on who made it, the bore is lapped with 300-320 grit aluminum oxide. If the brush scratched it the marks would run the same direction as the lapping. I would NOT use a stainless brush in a Benchrest quality barrel. I would not try to use a brush in a barrel by turning it; as in a drill. By all meams do use a well fitted bore guide to center the brush/lag in the bore.Start the brush back in the muzzle end slowly. No need to kill snakes here. Use any of the available bore cleaners and good patches. Go to a registered Benchrest match and you can see the majority of competitors cleaning with a bronze brush.

Mike Swartz
 
Bronze brushes

As Francis pointed out the bronze brush can't hurt before the actual firing does.
I recently thought a long range barrel was done for so I cleaned aggressivly with a bronze brush (running it forwards and backwards) and JB bore paste. It actually shot better than ever giving me smaller groups at 600 yds. Yeah it was dirty.
Now I don't recommend this but..... I'm just saying it didn't hurt mine. Curtis
 
Today's nylon brushes clean as well as bronze. Never use a bronze brush with bore solvent. You will find copper stain coming from the brush, not the bore.
 
The colors differ - -

tenring said:
Today's nylon brushes clean as well as bronze. Never use a bronze brush with bore solvent. You will find copper stain coming from the brush, not the bore.
Click to expand...

Copper and bronze show a different color on patches. There is way more damage done by the fire from fired rounds than a bronze brush can ever do. Barrels, like powder and bullets don't last forever. :D
 
Thanks for the info

Thanks for the info. The 6mmbr.com article is a can of worms. Their are as many opinions as moly vs. non-moly. I'll stick with my bronze brush. It hasn't failed me yet. I am not an over achiever in the cleaning at this point.

tiny
 
Exactly....

tiny68 said:
Thanks for the info. The 6mmbr.com article is a can of worms. Their are as many opinions as moly vs. non-moly. I'll stick with my bronze brush. It hasn't failed me yet. I am not an over achiever in the cleaning at this point.

tiny
Click to expand...

All the 6mm site discussion proved is that even the "experts" don't agree. All of us in this game have a pet way to clean our barrels. It has worked for years and is usually the simplest, most effective way we've found over the years. We've all been through multiple barrels, and I bet in no case did we replace a barrel because of what that "damn" bronze brush did. I would bet over the years we've all tried different cleaning methods and I bet most of us have settled on a combo of either Butch's, Montana, kroil, Sweet's, Hoppe's, JB, and a bronze brush. Works for me...and until someone comes up with a product such as Wipeout but that works within five minutes resulting with an absolutely clean bore; I ain't changin!

My method:
1. two wet patches with Sweets and wait 30 seconds.
2. stroke eleven times with a bronze brush soaked with Butch's Bore Shine.
3. one dry patch
4. one wet patch with Kroil
5. one dry patch
6. Shoot the next agg.

I don't clean after each relay (or match). Only between the 100yd and 200yd agg's...approximately 40-45 rounds. Well, this works for the every barrel I've had; but...I'm not saying it would work for everyone. But also, until that "wonderful" beats-all cleaning method comes along, I'm sticking with it. :rolleyes:
 
I have a suggestion that will convince you one way or the other. Take a barrel of your choice and mark a spot on the OUTSIDE of the barrel and measure it as accurate as you can. Now take a brush and scrub that spot 3000 times and remeasure and inspect. If you can measure the difference than you have your answer and no one will convince other wise. I would recommend using a micrometer that reads in 1/10000 of an inch.
For what it is worth I use bronze brushes and scrub both ways.
 
A lot of barrel damage is caused by bad technique. I wipe my rods off often, don't run tight patches, don't run my brush much farther out of the muzzle than is required for the bristles to clear the crown, do a lot of short stroking with patches, don't start with a brush until I have patched out everything that I can, have slowed my rod stroke way down, pay attention to rod alignment, and use a better rod guide than 95% of the shooters that I have seen. My crowns look fine, and yes I use bronze brushes. (and BBS)
 
It's like a Deja Vu. Same outcome as the last (14) times this came up. It all comes down to what makes you feel better between your ears. If you think it works it probably does.

Mike Swartz
 
I gave up wearing out bronze brushes long ago. The reason is they wear out. Why, where does the bronze go? What does this mean? If it's the solvent dissolving the brush, then why do I put it in the bore? I have not found any bore cleaner that does both jobs vary well, remove the carbon and remove the copper. I have found great cleaner for each separately. I like the scrubbing action of a good well fit patch, I like the story the patches tell me, about how clean the barrel is becoming.

I don't ever feel the need to get beyond 20 to 25 rounds without a proper cleaning.
 
tiny68
Like JohnVM says, try scrubbing the outside of a barrel, underneath where scuff marks can't be seen. Scrubbing with a stainless brush will remove metal. Bronze does little harm, but will leave burnished bronze residue. I like the new tough nylon brushes offered now. Whenever I've used them testing them, I'll follow through with a bronze for kicks and don't find anymore crud coming out. I clean once or twice a season with bronze brush for a thorough cleaning..........from Wingnut's view. :)
 
I shot an old ZKW465 22 Hornet for a time, used mild loads with Lil Gun ball powder and that combined with the deep coarse rifling and less than stellar surface finish of the barrel caused it to carbon foul like a SOB, you could actually see the build up on the end of the barrel.

I use Bore Tech Eliminator which based on my tests seems to be as effective on carbon as Butches or GM Top Engine Cleaner.

I could soak that little Hornet and scrub with a nylon brush and the patches would keep coming out grey. When I got sick of how long it took to clean I decided to go back to a bronze brush. Soak for 5 minutes, hit it with the bronze brush for 4 - 6 strokes and the rod and next few patches would come out as black as the inside of a cow but that was all the carbon gone.

It seems to be that unless the cleaner will lift the carbon right off the steel the much better scrubbing action of the bronze compared to nylon does a far better job.

I guess it comes down to what you shoot and how long you want to take to clean it. If the barrel is smooth and doesn't copper fould and the load doesn't make much carbon either is probably as good as the other.

Bryce
 
Bryce,
Ya, that is the dirtiest load I shoot. I use 13.5gr Lil'Gun with a 35gr Vmax that averages 3,150fps and .9" groups at 100yds. Great load, BUT dirty. I use Blue Wonder on a bronze brush for that. Like cleaning out a stove pipe!

I only use nylon brushes with Eliminator and it cleans most carbon but not like the Blue Wonder or Slip 2000! Eliminator is too reactive with the bronze brush.................Wingnut
 
I'm the Rookie

on the block and I would think reading all this info from the seasoned veterens is all helpful.

My thoughts are a GOOD bore guide that fits the rod being used as tightly as possible is a important part of saving the bore from cleaning damage.

Bronze brushes because the stainless is way harder and I have a hard time believing that a plastic brush can actually scrub off copper deposits and aid in helping slow down the carbon ring growth.

I use 22 cal rods with 22 cal jags using 6mm patches on my 6MM barrels. The patches go down perfect. The bore guide is a Lucas made for the 22cal rod. The brushes are the standard bronze 6mm brushes.

The final key is "slow and steady wins the race". A slow steady rythm stopping just as the jag or brush exits the muzzle and pulling back. I wipe my cleaning rods after each pass.

JMO
Calvin
 
Big Al

When you are eating up brushes in a particular barrel. You are also
driving a gun that is only so-so. Brushes are cheap and should stand at
least 6-7 cleanings. A recent 308 Rem VS had more lines across the lands
than it had from the bolt to the muzzle, According to my bore scope. It
did eat brushes about one every cleaning. Where the tool marks apeared
across the land was also the tight spot. This rifle was designated for
factory class and as such , I wanted to use ths barrel. With nothing to loose
but a $ 5.00 piece of steel, I decided to fire lap it. Lead bullets beginning
with coarser grades of Aluminum oxide and finishing with diamond. Brushes
now last 3 times longer and it is now shoots very well. Under 1/2inch.
for an 8 shot group recently fired.
 
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