Sighter Etiquette Question

M

markharp

Member
I wouldn't want to high jack that fine thread that started on the Unlimited class at StL, but it did remind me of a question I had last week at the Nationals. Doubling and shooting at the sighter. I saw some shooters finish on the record, wait, look around to see if others were done, sometimes even ask if others where done, then shoot some at the sighter. I saw someone finish on record, drop straight to the sighter and shoot 5-10 without any thought of those around them still shooting for record,,,,, all weekend.

As a newbie, is there an "official" method of how to do this? is it generally frowned on? or just accepted that it happens and you might get doubled with it?

Thanks,

Mark
 
markharp said:
I wouldn't want to high jack that fine thread that started on the Unlimited class at StL, but it did remind me of a question I had last week at the Nationals. Doubling and shooting at the sighter. I saw some shooters finish on the record, wait, look around to see if others were done, sometimes even ask if others where done, then shoot some at the sighter. I saw someone finish on record, drop straight to the sighter and shoot 5-10 without any thought of those around them still shooting for record,,,,, all weekend.

As a newbie, is there an "official" method of how to do this? is it generally frowned on? or just accepted that it happens and you might get doubled with it?

Thanks,

Mark
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Considerate shooters will generally remove their bolts when they finish. Notice I said generally. Sometimes they are concentrating on some aspect of the target or group and forget.

To get closer to answer your uestion, there is no "official" protocol for this subject. The best suggestion I can give is to wear plugs and muffs, snug your front rest sides to where there is no drag but still no side movement, then have at it till the RO says "5 seconds".
 
Mark...for a newbie your are pretty perceptive. No, there is no "rule" per se, just good 'ole common sense and sportsmanship. MOST shooters that elect to go back to the sighter-usually to test another load or condition change-WILL see if the shooter next to, or up to two benches away, have finished their record group. The only possible exception is when the fellow next to you is sitting with his bolt open waiting for a particular condition and you might be able to throw a couple down there before he starts his group. This is a bit risky because there are some shooters that wait until their neighbor is done and then start. So if you seem to finish and then shoot again he may not know if you are done. I have seen guys in contention deliberately wait until the next bench is done before starting. You can only do that, however, when the conditions are benign or readable. In tough conditions, many of us look for a condition window and what the guy next to us is doing is not really on our mind.

Most of us have had a good group ruined by a "double" and take pains to lay off making Swiss cheese of our sighter target until our buddies have finished.

Jeff
 
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Mark

Of course, there is no "rule" regarding this, a shooter has 7 minutes, and he can shoot as many times as he wants, when he wants.

But, the general protocol is, if you are finished, don't start playing around with the sighter if a fellow competitor at an adjacent bench is still on the record.

But do keep in mind, various shooters will have different styles. My gosh, we watched Lester Bruno shoot about 15-20 sighters per target, then wait untill the final 30 seconds to shoot the record. That has been his style for years. When someone shoots that many rounds, the odds of a double are pretty high.

There seems to be a perseption that all Benchrest Shooters just wait untill the condition is favorable, then they bang five shots on the record as fast as possible. That is not the case. Many hunt and peck, and take the entire 7 minutes to finish a group. Many times it depends on the conditions.

Also, ranges vary. At Tomball, we have a full 8 feet between centers on benches. There is not much likely hood of doubles affecting each other. But, at Denton, they are much closer. It can happen.

In the end, this is a tough question. Since this is strictly a personal issue between shooters, you could only hope that good manners and gracious behavior will prevail. But, that being said, remember, this is still a competition. One shooter dictating when another can, and cannot shoot, would be as rude as someone dumping rounds on the sighter while a shooter at the next bench was trying to finish his group.

I suppose the Golden Rule applys. Do unto your fellow shooter as you would want him to do unto you...........jackie
 
One thing I've found about the Golden Rule...... it's a crock.

Here's why:

I've found that MOST of the world don't wanna' be done the way I wanna' be done.......

The absolute minute you think you can make the other guy happy you're setting yourself up for failure. (IMO)

It's freakin' RACING guys...... you do what you can within the rules and beat 'em FAIR............. but "play nice?????" I dunno....... define nice.

I'll give a guy my gun, I'll share my supplies and any information I may have, I'll wash your flippin' car and watch your kids so's you can reload in peace but when I've got my game face on Be'DADburned if I'm gonna' worry about if the guy next to me whether or not he's "bothered" by me shooting.

I've been to very few matches but I shoot a 17lb rifle in the ones I've been shooting.

17lb and 0oz

This is the rule. And I've got one guy who gets up in my face about it three matches in a row.... WHY? Should I take some weight out to make him happy?

And I've set out several minutes of my time staring at the wind-N-weeds and gathering my scattered thoughts while everybody else is done shooting and fidgeting about...... and had to shoot with guys standing up and walking around.........

And I should not only learn to shoot but I must learn to watch out for my neighbors too??? So I don't "double" on 'em?

I'd rather stay home.



al
 
Jerry, Jeff and Jackie – good responses. Use a little common sense and good judgement/sportsmanship. Generally I check to see if my immediate neighbors have completed their groups before I start checking loads on the sighter, or verifying conditions with extra sighters after my record group has been completed. Usually I’m done with my record group by the two-minute warning, or I’m close to finishing.

Be a good sportsman…don’t get caught trying to intentionally screw your neighbor. You will not be forgotten. You might become the next target of revenge.
 
Greg Walley said:
Jerry, Jeff and Jackie – good responses. Use a little common sense and good judgement/sportsmanship. Generally I check to see if my immediate neighbors have completed their groups before I start checking loads on the sighter, or verifying conditions with extra sighters after my record group has been completed. Usually I’m done with my record group by the two-minute warning, or I’m close to finishing.

Be a good sportsman…don’t get caught trying to intentionally screw your neighbor. You will not be forgotten. You might become the next target of revenge.
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Hey Greg, I liked Wayne's answer too. I need to talk to you, are you at work?
 
This is one of them

depends on who's ox is getting gored deals. There are folks who would be concerned about their neighbor shooting after his record shots were finished who would not be willing to allow their neighbors windflags to be adjusted or wrighted if the wind blew them over. Depends on the degree of being a Gentelman.
 
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See what you think

After you have been hosed by your neighbor doubling with you and it costs you a shot out of your group when you are in the hunt. You may recognize the right thing to do the next time.

later
Dave
 
depends on the shooter

Common courtesy is essential to our sport of course but I think every shooter needs to learn to block out everything but the target and wind flags or they will not be successful in the long run. Since everyone is trying to shoot in the same 7 minutes, you are bound to double with someone several times per weekend. If you are expecting it and anticipating it, you will not be concentrating enough on what you are doing to do well. Like was mentioned earlier, if it bothers you, wear double ear protection and blinders if you must. If your equipment is susceptible to doubles, re-evaluate it and make corrections. A proper, solid setup will not be affected by sound waves.

Bottom line is to afford the most courtesy you can while shooting, but prepare for anything. I've gotten to the point where you could set off a car bomb behind me and I wouldn't even notice and neither would my rest.
 
goodgrouper

goodgrouper said:
Common courtesy is essential to our sport of course but I think every shooter needs to learn to block out everything but the target and wind flags or they will not be successful in the long run. Since everyone is trying to shoot in the same 7 minutes, you are bound to double with someone several times per weekend. If you are expecting it and anticipating it, you will not be concentrating enough on what you are doing to do well. Like was mentioned earlier, if it bothers you, wear double ear protection and blinders if you must. If your equipment is susceptible to doubles, re-evaluate it and make corrections. A proper, solid setup will not be affected by sound waves.

Bottom line is to afford the most courtesy you can while shooting, but prepare for anything. I've gotten to the point where you could set off a car bomb behind me and I wouldn't even notice and neither would my rest.
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What kind of equipment corrections can i do to insure doubling with my neighbor will not affect me?

Another thing i think is not neccesary is for people to pound away on the shghter while their neighbor is fininshing their group.

Dave
 
I am not sure it is about "Bench Equipment"

A couple of years back, at Denton, we were shooting 5 shot Unlimited at 200 yards. The benches are U-Shaped, so I usually set up on the left side. Another shooter had set his Rail up on the right side. Our muzzles were probably only 5 feet apart.

I was going along quite well, winning the agg. In match five, after about three shots, we both let one go at exactly the same time. His shot went in, mine took a mind of it's own and ended up three bullet holes from the group. The fifth shot went smack into the first three.

I think it is the concusion of the blast, and the bullet traveling through it, that does the damage. Which ever shoots 'second", gets burned.

That is about the only time that I was 99 9/10 percent sure that the reason that bullet took off was it went through a blast curtain............jackie
 
Pete Wass said:
his record shots were finished who would not be willing to allow their neighbors windflags to be adjusted or wrighted if the wind blew them over. Depends on the degree of being a Gentelman.
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What game are you shooting Pete that will allow righting a wind flag that blew over during an agg??
 
Personally, I don't see an issue with regard to doubling up on someone. I've shot a lot of matches at WWCCA where the benches are inches apart, and at St. Louis where they are feet apart. I have never found it to noticeably impact my shots or groups.

When I hear the command "...insert your bolt and commence firing", I'm focusing on identifying the best conditions to shoot my five shots on the record. I pay little attention to what is happening to my right or left. When that right condition appears, I start firing. Most of the time, I couldn't tell you if either of the competitors next to me fired a shot.

I think those that do complain, use it as a convenient excuse to rationalize the lack of good tune on their rifle and/or missing a condition.

Just my opinion,
Lee :rolleyes:
 
I wonder how high and long a shield that extended from the front of the bench forward would have to be to prevent doubling? I don't think that they would inconvenience anyone. They could be set like a pair of saw horses, one on either side. What would be the harm if someone wanted to put out a set to protect from the real or imagined effects?
 
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