Sighter Etiquette Question

[JerrySharrett]

I wonder how high and long a shield that extended from the front of the bench forward would have to be to prevent doubling? I don't think that they would inconvenience anyone. They could be set like a pair of saw horses, one on either side. What would be the harm if someone wanted to put out a set to protect from the real or imagined effects?

Just as a first comment, if the baffle were too high you would be blocking adjacent shooters view of the flags.

As Lee mentioned above, concentration will overcome most doubling problems, concentration and a good setup of the bags.

How about some classes of 600 and 1000 yard rules that allow muzzle breaks. If I remember correctly, LG does allow muzzle breaks and HG doesn't.

 

[Jan]

Just as a first comment, if the baffle were too high you would be blocking adjacent shooters view of the flags.

As Lee mentioned above, concentration will overcome most doubling problems, concentration and a good setup of the bags.

How about some classes of 600 and 1000 yard rules that allow muzzle breaks. If I remember correctly, LG does allow muzzle breaks and HG doesn't.

Also there would more than likely be safety issues as the baffles may well obscure shooters from the Range Officer's view at many ranges!

 

[Pete Wass]

Ibs

What game are you shooting Pete that will allow righting a wind flag that blew over during an agg??

There is no prohibition currently in the IBS rules. Is there one in NBRSA or has there always been an "Understanding" there too?

Whenever I am a referee I will gladly help anyone stay on equal footing with everyone else. To deny them that oportunity is unsportsmanlike, in my opinion. Windflag issues happen so infrequently it is never a problem, at least not for me, no more than retreiving something that has fallen or blown off their bench beyond the firing line.

 

[jackie schmidt]

Pete

The latest edition of the NBRSA Rule Book states on page 54 that the only adjustment that can be made to a flag is to lay it down if it is obscuring another shooters line of sight.

There is also another item that I have even see Referees misconstrue. The rule says that flags shall be no higher than the level of the benchtop to the bottom of the target card. Many mistakenly think it is to the bottom of the target frame.

I like the IBS Rule better. It says no higher than the bullets flight.........jackie

 

[Hal D.]

There is no prohibition currently in the IBS rules. Is there one in NBRSA or has there always been an "Understanding" there too?

Whenever I am a referee I will gladly help anyone stay on equal footing with everyone else. To deny them that oportunity is unsportsmanlike, in my opinion. Windflag issues happen so infrequently it is never a problem, at least not for me, no more than retreiving something that has fallen or blown off their bench beyond the firing line.

Actually Pete, it states in the IBS rulebook that no competitor shall be allowed downrange once the commence fire command is given. My understanding is that only the target crew can go forward from that point. If a flag is deemed to be interfering with a competitors line of sight/bullet flight, then a target crew member can be instructed to drop the flag. I'm not sure I've read anything about referee's going downrange after the commence fire, but I don't think I've ever seen it...

 

[alinwa]

A long time ago in a world far far away we did a lot of camping. We and our friends had little kids and were feeling cramped by them, all our "fun sports" and competitions were kinda' on hold.

And we're competitors all.....

bummer.

One day somebody broke out a croquet set in the campground........ we read the rules and thought "hey, this might could be fun!"

It was.....

Now croquet is gener'ly considered a genteel sport, a sport to be played with the pinky finger OUT just so.... or so we thought. Turns out croquet can get perty rowdy and competitive, especially the part about "sending" the opponents balls out of the court by stepping on your ball and whacking your opponents ball out of site. So we kinda' got into it for a while, went through probably twenty-thirty sets of clubs and balls.... moving up the food chain into higher end stuff, custom balls, lathe turned AL and bound head mallets, full-blown competition grade stuff. In fact, we got so into it that we figgered HEY! let's find out if there are tournaments and stuff!

There was.......

But we had trepidations...... we're competitors remember? No whining.

So's we checked in with the "clubs" and asked the right questions. "Do we need to dress for this?"

"But of COURSE not old chap, just come in your street clothes, we LOVE new blood....... SILLY idea that...."

And what about 'sending' opponents?? I mean it's in the rules, but it's "mean...isn't it?"

"MEAN???....... 'Sending' your opponents is part of the game Old Bean!! If you cawn't stawnd being ejected into the next county then you must stay home!"..... "Why, our best sender, Berthold Lendershank III has been known to send folks off on QUESTS with his powerful shots! If you ha'ven't been 'sent' by our Bertie you haven't been SENT!!"

really.......

So we so'igned up for competition.......

And we learned that there IS a propuh' way to dress......

And that while sending is "allowed" by the rules it isn't meant to be a part of your STRATEGY....... "Good LO'RD MAN!! AGAIN?? It just isn't DONE that way...."

"Just because a thing is in the Rule Book doesn't make it PROPER!"

And we learned that winning is just SOOOooo improper until you've paid your Good Ol' Boy dues and learned to talk right........ and learned the unspoken rules.

But we did thoroughly kick all ass until we were asked to leave.

And never broke or bent a single rule.

musta' been an etiquette thing.

Oddly enough, the concept of 'revenge' didn't once come up in the World of Competitive Croquet......


al

 

[jackie schmidt]

Hal

Is there a definition in the IBS Rules that states who exactly "Range Personell' are??.........jackie

 

[glp]

Hal...

Actually Pete, it states in the IBS rulebook that no competitor shall be allowed downrange once the commence fire command is given. My understanding is that only the target crew can go forward from that point. If a flag is deemed to be interfering with a competitors line of sight/bullet flight, then a target crew member can be instructed to drop the flag. I'm not sure I've read anything about referee's going downrange after the commence fire, but I don't think I've ever seen it...

"G)
People Down Range: At no time after the registered aggregate has begun will any person, other than range personnel or referees, be permitted down range until that range aggregate has been completed. Any person violating this safety rule will be automatically disqualified."

page 18 of 42 of the online IBS rulebook.

I agree with Pete, and have always felt that way. If a competitor is unlucky enough for a strong wind to collapse or push over a flag, there should be no question that a referee or other person allowed down range should be able to re-set it. I'm not talking about someone carping that their flag could be 2 inches higher or lower or 2 inces left or righ, but a bonafide, fortuitous problem. That happened at the Maine State Shoot in a strong 200 yard Sunday wind to a couple of people. Flags were raised and the complaints started, complete with a followup call to the IBS president. I defy anyone to find in the rule book where this is a prohibited action. The refs are allowed to use discretion and common sense here. When that application of the thought process results in helping a shooter remain competitive and doesn't violate a rule, it is the sportsman like thing to do. JMHO--Greg

 

[glp]

Jackie

Is there a definition in the IBS Rules that states who exactly "Range Personell' are??.........jackie

I did a search on the IBS online rule book and could find no definition. My guess is it is in reference to target crew, match director and range officer, but that is my speculation. Referees are specificall mentioned. See my other post.

 

[Dick Grosbier]

What game are you shooting Pete that will allow righting a wind flag that blew over during an agg??

This is a grey area in the current IBS rules that will be closely scrutinized in the near future, most feel it is not permitted now.

 

[JerrySharrett]

"G)
People Down Range: At no time after the registered aggregate has begun will any person, other than range personnel or referees, be permitted down range until that range aggregate has been completed. Any person violating this safety rule will be automatically disqualified."

page 18 of 42 of the online IBS rulebook.

I--Greg

Looks like the people designated to go down range within an aggregate is pretty much defined by this rule. Remember, there are situations that require referees to go to the target line to rule on backers, etc.

 

[Pete Wass]

Why would they think that Dick?

This is a grey area in the current IBS rules that will be closely scrutinized in the near future, most feel it is not permitted now.

I fail to understand why people feel this way. As I pointed out in a previous post here, if an article either fall from or blows off someone's bench, there is never a question or complaint if a referee picks it up for them. I rather think it is mean spirited folks who want to take every advantage of the other guy they can get. There can be no other explanation. How about just competing on level ground and let the best competior win with equal things to compete with; as nearly so as they choose to try to use, within the rules?

I would also question a Match Director being able to go Down range once the match starts. I don't believe they have any authority to do so. They are Clerical folks and nothing else.

 

[Dave Coots]

What a quagmire it would be

if everyone could go fix their flags whenever they wanted. It's a big enough problem to get them set in a timely fashion. We'd be shooting in the dark the way i see it, if a shooter could go downrange anytime to adjust flags. I anchored mine down in St Louis last week with a 2.65 MPH wind just to be safe, but then again i was a Boy Scout.

IMO
Dave

 

[glp]

Dick..

This is a grey area in the current IBS rules that will be closely scrutinized in the near future, most feel it is not permitted now.

I would disagree that it is grey. That most feel it is not permitted is true but like the say in Missouri, show me?

 

[JerrySharrett]

I
I would also question a Match Director being able to go Down range once the match starts. I don't believe they have any authority to do so. They are Clerical folks and nothing else.

Pete, is not the Range Officer not part of the range personnel as defined in the rule glp posted above? Also note than a Range Officer may or may not be the same person as the Match Director. In any event why would they not all be "range personnel" as stated in that rule?

 

[Wilbur]

Bothers me to this day!

Shooting at Rachel's Glen some years ago two of my "daisies" became tangled with the "tail" ribbon. As y'all know, that pretty much disables a flag. Knowing full well I was not allowed to fix it myself, I asked the then youthful target crew member (Scott Knight) to drive his four wheeler past my flags and untangle the tails or just rip off the tangled ribbon. By the look on his face I knew he suspected something was not just right with my request but he did it anyway. Nobody said a word but I'll have it over my head forever that:

I CHEATED!

I knew the rules, the intent of the rules, and the grey areas therein......and I cheated.

 

[Mike Paul]

I fail to understand why people feel this way. As I pointed out in a previous post here, if an article either fall from or blows off someone's bench, there is never a question or complaint if a referee picks it up for them. I rather think it is mean spirited folks who want to take every advantage of the other guy they can get. There can be no other explanation. How about just competing on level ground and let the best competior win with equal things to compete with; as nearly so as they choose to try to use, within the rules?

I would also question a Match Director being able to go Down range once the match starts. I don't believe they have any authority to do so. They are Clerical folks and nothing else.

In our State matches, the Match Director is also the frame assembler, backer fixer, target frame crew, food director, whine and moan recieving director, referee for shooters at each others throats, drink getter, and oh yeah-the clerical folk.

Yeah, let's send those clerical folk home! They got better things to do than to listen to someone B**** and moan about where they should or shouldn't be...

-MP

 

[Hal D.]

I fail to understand why people feel this way. As I pointed out in a previous post here, if an article either fall from or blows off someone's bench, there is never a question or complaint if a referee picks it up for them. I rather think it is mean spirited folks who want to take every advantage of the other guy they can get. There can be no other explanation. How about just competing on level ground and let the best competior win with equal things to compete with; as nearly so as they choose to try to use, within the rules?

I would also question a Match Director being able to go Down range once the match starts. I don't believe they have any authority to do so. They are Clerical folks and nothing else.

I'm with Dave Coots. Life ain't fair, that's why you need to be prepared to deal with the elements or whatever else is thrown at you.

 

[Butch Lambert]

I'm sure with Dave.
Butch

 

[Don]

Shooting at Rachel's Glen some years ago two of my "daisies" became tangled with the "tail" ribbon. As y'all know, that pretty much disables a flag. Knowing full well I was not allowed to fix it myself, I asked the then youthful target crew member (Scott Knight) to drive his four wheeler past my flags and untangle the tails or just rip off the tangled ribbon. By the look on his face I knew he suspected something was not just right with my request but he did it anyway. Nobody said a word but I'll have it over my head forever that:

I CHEATED!

I knew the rules, the intent of the rules, and the grey areas therein......and I cheated.

Sounds like you solved a problem, creatively, and within the rules!

I, for one, applaude your creativity and ingenuity.

I do not think BR competitions were meant to be moral tests of purity for acceptance into priesthood..................Don