Sighter Etiquette Question

[alinwa]

Shooting at Rachel's Glen some years ago two of my "daisies" became tangled with the "tail" ribbon. As y'all know, that pretty much disables a flag. Knowing full well I was not allowed to fix it myself, I asked the then youthful target crew member (Scott Knight) to drive his four wheeler past my flags and untangle the tails or just rip off the tangled ribbon. By the look on his face I knew he suspected something was not just right with my request but he did it anyway. Nobody said a word but I'll have it over my head forever that:

I CHEATED!

I knew the rules, the intent of the rules, and the grey areas therein......and I cheated.

Thank you Wilbur, you've nailed it!

As usual, Wilbur puts it into a perspective that I can relate to...... HONOR!

If folks are bound by their moral principles to act HONORABLY as Wilbur just illustrated then there'll BE no real problems. Honesty and Honor...... I've met very few people who when asked for clarification or help won't turn out to be perfect gentlemen, by their standards. And by the same token I've seen an awful lot of newbies get in trouble for "not knowing the unspoken rules" which the old dawgs and lifers have known so long they've forgotten. Some geezer will bark at some kid.... and never see him again. More's the pity. I sincerely hope that geezer is never me.


IMO if the rules allow it, it's allowed....... period, end of story. Rules aren't made to be "guidelines" nor "bent" or "made to be broken" or any of the other lame ass "interpretations" I've run across in various venues, ESPECIALLY not by the "in crowd"...... I'm already seeing some of this in BR shooting and it gets my goat. If a rule needs to be clarified or even changed then OK, campaign for it and get the votes and CHANGE it but in the meantime getting ones tail in a knot over something that's allowed in the rules is simply whining.

If the rules say you can shoot for 7 minutes then IMO you can shoot for 7 minutes. Now if the sign says "please, no shots fired after your record string" then it's be pushing a little bit to do it..... but until it's a RULE then we only have a difference of opinion.

The problem with the whole "etiquette" deal is that IME it's a training thing. Different people, different training, different rules.....I know folks from age zero to 100, I know folks in every state in the union and I've lived and worked and played from Portland Maine to Portland Oregon, from the Florida panhandle to the Baja panhandle, and if I've learned one thing it's that "etiquette" is subject to interpretation. My Gramma's etiquette is different than your Gramma's, guaranteed. You put a New Yorker in the same room with a Texan and you'll likely see a good time is had by all...... why? because they both pretty much get up and say what they think, no "etiquette" morass to navigate. No hurt feelings to deal with, just two strangers on the way to becoming friends. Now I could pick on some other states where you put 'em in the same room and the fur might fly.

I enjoy Texans and New Yorkers, South Carolinians and North Californians...... I've got close friends who're 1/2 my age and those that are twice my age, men women and children of all sorts and sizes, but my personal friends exhibit one characteristic, honesty. No walking on eggs, no reading between the lines. No need for "knowing the rules" and no need for etiquette training. It should be no concern of mine whether you hold your fork with your left paw or your right.

I don't do french restaurants

I don't play "house rules" without a shakehands meeting beforehand

And I don't expect the worst of people just because they're different than me.

I do still chew with my mouth shut, cuz I was taught it was polite.




al

 

[alinwa]

On the subject of courtesy I'd like to relate an experience which to this day makes me all warm and fuzzy....

I was at a 600yd match here in Portland where several competitors had taken the time to come in from miles away. And let me say that I've found this whole group of guys to be exemplary examples of honesty and integrity, in fact at this same match one of the competitors Curt Mendenhall pointed out that we needed to pay more than the range officials had indicated, fees for light and heavy were separate. Everyone coughed up the difference with no complaints....

But I digress.

I was shooting both Light and Heavy using one rifle. This rifle was getting very hot. I was using up all of my time cleaning and cooling my rifle and feeling very much like I was holding up the show (even though I was within the time constraints)...... but one person in particular just waited quietly and encouraged my efforts, Ron Tilley, 'tillroot' on this forum. Ron if you're reading this, Thank You! Thanks to all who've borne with this newbie but Ron Tilley in particular had a long drive ahead of him and absolutely did not try to hurry me along.

I appreciated it. It made my day.

I've gotten somewhat faster and I hope soon to have two rifles so that I can get up to speed......

I've competed in a lot of venues and I've generally found BR competitors to be moreso the honourable sort than elsewhere.

I'm sure that this post will be considered unnecessary to some, but I felt Ron deserved a pat on the back.

al

 

[JD Mock]

Doubling at the Nationals.

At a place like St. Louis, doulbling is not as much of a problem as it is at other ranges. This is because the benches are widely spaced. The benches at Kelbly's are very close and doubling is quite bothersome.

I try to time my shots so that I am not firing at the same time as my neighbors, but my primary concentration is on the wind flags. THerefore, doubling sometimes occurs.

The top two shooters at St. Louis (Jack Neary and Tony Boyer) happened to shoot side by side. There was some doubling by these two great shooters because both of them shoot the same "style". They like to wait until those around them have completed their shooting. This was not posssible for both.

I just wish that I could shoot that well....doubling included. James

 

[Wilbur]

Sammy Phillips

Y'all don't know a nicer fellow than Sammy and for sure none nicer than his wife JoAnn. Before the first shot fired, Sammy would attempt a "deal" with the competitors left and right of his position as to which part of the seven minutes you would use and which part he would use. I always told him I was gonna use about 20 seconds but I never knew when it would occur. Some folks actually bought in from time to time and I thought that strange.

Sammy also coined the phrase, "I learnt me somethin' that time"....which is typically used when returning to the loading area just as you place your rifle in the cleaning cradle. The intent of the phrase is to indicate an experience just short of an epiphany and the recommended response is silence.

"Doubling" happens! Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it doesn't. It doesn't happen such that it hurts often enough to be of concern. Certainly, if it happens and hurts, you ain't gonna win that agg but why lose the next one being distracted by something that may never happen again.

 

[Boyd Allen]

Doubling question...
Do you think that the problem is caused by the bullet being deflected, or do you think that it is the rifle that is upset by the shock wave from the discharge a nearby rifle?

 

[JerrySharrett]

Doubling question...
Do you think that the problem is caused by the bullet being deflected, or do you think that it is the rifle that is upset by the shock wave from the discharge a nearby rifle?

If you are bothered by doubling, watch your cross hair while your neighbor shoots. Many times you will find it is your setup that caused the grief. I'll wager the concussion next door is not going to upset the flight of your bullet.

 

[Boyd Allen]

Jerry,
Good suggestion...I can look at that any time that I am at the range, as long as someone is shooting next to me.
Boyd

 

[jackie schmidt]

Boyd

Based on my experiece with my Rail Gun (which is NOT disturbed by an adjacent double), I think it is the shock wave, (for lack of a better term), that the bullet encounters from the other bench. Or at least some of the time........jackie

 

[crb]

I place my first flag fairly close to the bench and the muzzle blast from my neighbor on the left will definitely make the flag swing wildly. This being the case I can easily believe that the muzzle blast can displace the bullet. The timing would have to be nearly perfect which is why you wouldn't see it on every double.

 

[zippy06]

JD. Thanks for that comment about Jack and Tony. Something to think about.
I have sat next to Jack twice. At my first Benchrest tournament. WWCCA. And at my first Super Shoot. 2009. A great experience both. Learned a lot.
crb. I have noticed the same thing with the wind flags.
I have had some doubling. Being a new guy. I was not sure of the effect.
But, I think I have seen it go both ways. I have been affected and have affected.
At my last tournament. We all tried to pick different conditions.
So as to not double. The benches are kinda close.
But, it happens. Part of the game.
Like the guy next to you. Who shows up late. And then says WHO'S SHOOTING ON MY TARGET!!!!!!!
Part of the game. I guess.

 

[goodgrouper]

free recoil

Dave

Dave,
Sorry for the late reply. I posted my question just before I headed out to a match in Colorado and I just got back last night.

With free recoil, I found that doubling with someone hurt my groups a lot more when I had my bags too full and too tight around the stitching. I let a bit of sand out and the problem went away or was drastically reduced. I hypothesized that the tight and hard bags were acting like tuning forks and my neighbors percussion was setting it off. I don't know if I'm right or wrong but letting sand out did help.

 

[goodgrouper]

This is off topic of the original thread but, as I understand it, the NBRSA match director can be downrange to fix problems with backers or target frames as can the target crew but they cannot adjust flags that are too tall. Only the referees/and or the RO can touch flags after the agg has started and even at that, the only option for them is to lay them over. This is how I've seen it done at every match I've been to.