Question for score shooters?

Randy Jarvais said:
Dick, what was the discussion and why were custom actions allowed?
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Randy
Custom actions were first allowed in NBRSA for some period of time before IBS. After NBRSA ended reciprocity with IBS it was decided to allow NBRSA shooters to compete in IBS matches with their NBRSA legal rifles (custom actions). We had this situation for 1 year and then people came to their senses about what an absurd Idea it was to allow Custom actions if you had an NBRSA card , but not allow our own members to use them so the rule was changed and Custom actions were allowed. I personally never heard any issue about what was and was not a custom action although I seem to remember it had to be something like 1000 units made to not be custom. Your traveling companion is much more involved in Hunter class than I am these days and I would not question his memory on the subject. I have not shot Hunter since 1984 or so. I was just a club director voting on an agenda item, I know a lot of die hard Hunter shooters were against the idea but I did not hear of vagueness of what was and was not a factory action mentioned other than numbers manufactured.
Dick
 
Thanks Dick

Thanks for the clarification. That particular myth may not have come from my traveling partner, as there are others who think they "know" the history/progression of IBS lore. I will have to put that story into my myth binder...for now any way. :)
 
At this exact time we are approaching another possible milestone in IBS Hunter Class equipment rules. The original IBS Hunter Class rules or at least the ones in 1982 when I started competing were 10 lb max weight, 2-1/4 max fore end width, 6x max scope, Conventional bedding (no glue in), Fully functional magazine capable of holding and feeding 2 cartridges. And a factory action not to exceed 1.4" in diameter. Max. barrel tapers are also defined and are a little smaller than HV tapers. The first major Item to go was safeties a lot of monies were being spent on rifles that were only used in competition and really did not need a safety.Then Custom actions were let in.Now for the last 20+ years we have been struggling with the magazine it now does not need to be functional but it needs to be there and the cut needs to be large enough to pass rounds for which it the rifle is chambered and hold 2 rounds. I understand NBRSA Hunter merely requires a cut, no magazine. IBS has an agenda item that will be discussed at the winter meeting to do away completely with the magazine. On the one hand this is another big step away from the original Hunter Class rules. The older Shooters I have spoken to do not like the idea at all. However many of the new group feel it is the next logical step to possibly increase numbers in a declining class.

Dick
 
Dick

is the agenda item to do away with the "magazine" cuts ability to hold 2 rounds or do away with the cut in the action totally?
 
Dick, with regards to your statement about the newer crowd, I must agree. I can say that the proposed changes are what motivated me to pursue having a Hunter class rifle built this winter. I would like to compete in the 2 gun events, I think that it is an exciting format and a good way to get new shooters like me interested in Hunter.

With regards to the conversation in general...
I do not want to cut a magazine into my custom action, and I have no desire to pay to have a Rem 700 trued when I already have a perfectly good custom action to build on, so the proposed change is very important/appealing to me.

If these changes get new shooters like me interested in participating in Hunter as well as VFS, isn't that a good thing?
 
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I don't shoot Hunter class in any way, shape, or fashion but Y'all know as well as I do the folks that are crying the loudest will have something else to do come match day. They want to shoot and be competitive...when they show up. What you do with a rule change that affects the rifle is make the current rifles a bit more obsolete.....the rifles that have been there all along, weekend after weekend.

Josh - Yes, it would be a good thing if it didn't affect anyone but the new guys. You're kinda saying that you don't have a desire to cut your action so everybody else should buy one like yours. Think about that for a moment. if y'all don't think a rifle will shoot better (overall) without a magazine cutout, please ignore my post.

If the Hunter class dies...it just dies. Please don't kill it!!!
 
It's all about

Wilbur said:
I don't shoot Hunter class in any way, shape, or fashion but Y'all know as well as I do the folks that are crying the loudest will have something else to do come match day. They want to shoot and be competitive...when they show up. What you do with a rule change that affects the rifle is make the current rifles a bit more obsolete.....the rifles that have been there all along, weekend after weekend.

Josh - Yes, it would be a good thing if it didn't affect anyone but the new guys. You're kinda saying that you don't have a desire to cut your action so everybody else should buy one like yours. Think about that for a moment. if y'all don't think a rifle will shoot better (overall) without a magazine cutout, please ignore my post.

If the Hunter class dies...it just dies. Please don't kill it!!!
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looking for a temporary scoring advantage, if any, until the rest of the crowd catches up or drops out, imo.
 
When I decided to get into the Htr game, I bought a custom action that was made for the htr class with a magazine already cut out. I know you can get them from Bat and Borden and suspect also from the others as well. You certainly don't have to go with a Remington.

An extension of the rationale I heard as the reason for doing away with the magazine cut out, would be to go with a VFS rifle and just put a 6x scope on it. Is that where we are headed?

I was hoping that the combining of VH and Htr would generate more interest as the number of shooters would be combined to provide more competition. I thought the idea of using 30BRs thus not needing extra dies, brass, etc. for a true Htr cartridge would be enticing. That certainly eased my entry into the class, but the numbers didn't grow as I had hoped when voting.
 
I think

The limiting factor in the 6X class is the 6X scope limit and to a lesser extend the 10 lb weight limit. The class does well in the NBRSA in the mid west and west but time will tell if their sanctioning VFS will cut into the hunter class like it has in the East.
 
VFS did not "kill" NBRSA HBR in the Gulf a Coat Region. It was already on life support way before VFS was instituted as a Class in Registered Competition. I believe a lot of this was due to the shutting down of the old Hub City Rifle Club in Lafayette Louisianna.
There were, and still are, quite a few dedicat HBR Shooters that compete in Lousianna and Texas.

From my point of view, there are now a lot more HBR shooters who also shoot VFS than there are VFS Shooters shooting HBR. I think a lot of this is the result of making the 30BR and other smaller volume cases legal in HBR. You can take a legal HBR a Rifle, mount a higher power scope, and be competitive in VFS.

You can't shoot a legal VFS HV Rifle in HBR.
 
Wilbur said:
Josh - Yes, it would be a good thing if it didn't affect anyone but the new guys. You're kinda saying that you don't have a desire to cut your action so everybody else should buy one like yours. Think about that for a moment. if y'all don't think a rifle will shoot better (overall) without a magazine cutout, please ignore my post.
!
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I should have been more clear. I have an action slated for a Hunter build. I am waiting to see the results of the proposition to eliminate the magazine rule before I have anything done. Everyone else is free to do what they want. The idea that Hunter may be a little easier for me to get into (with proposed rule change) was what drew me to the class. If I need to have a magazine cut put in the action then I will, rules are rules and I won't whine about them one bit. I was just trying to show that it was the proposed rule change, and the cool factor of 2 Gun, that really got me thinking about having a Hunter gun built.

I think that if it affects/motivates any shooter to try Hunter that is a good thing for the class.
 
Well, I probably don't know what I'm talking about and "probably" is loose to say the best...or least. Just used that word in an attempt to sound like I might know something. I'll leave it to those who shoot Hunter class and hope there's enough of those folks to keep it real. Randy Robinette would know best so if he says anything on the matter please listen.

Josh - I re-read my post and believe it could appear "personal". That was not my intent!
 
We need to KISS it

The Hunter class rules should be simplified. We need to KISS it. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. I believe we only need 3 simple rules.
1. A 6x scope.
2. Rifle weight at 10 pounds or less.
3. 2.25 width stock.

SIMPLE RULES WORK BETTER. Less arguments.

I have a Remington 700 Hunter rifle where the only thing left on it that's factory is the wording "Remington 700". My custom action rifles cost less to build then my Remington 700 did.

Of course 6x should be kept separate from VFS. 2 gun should be the highest level of score shooting competition.
 
Great topic. Interesting read.

One comment stuck out to me "VFS is what changed the numbers in Htr class, not custom actions."
I don't know how true that is - I came into this adventure way after that was decided. But, it is my opinion that VFS is what is "saving" HTR class. The two gun, started by RG and the late Dan Hacket(sp) is getting to be pretty darn popular. VFS shooters are building HTR rifles to take part in the two gun.

Stanley
 
It will be easy enough to weld up the existing actions,

if it made any difference but as a number of shooters have demonstrated, a magazine cut does nothing to hinder accuracy or the rifle's ability to shoot big scores but the barrel and the shooter, now, that's a different matter.

I think the main reason for the lack of popularity of the Hunter class is that it too difficult to shoot 250's and especially for new shooters. When I began shooting Hunter rifles, 250's were rare, even by guys who had been doing it for a long time. I think the great VFS shooters who also shoot HBR rifles shoot a lot of250's but the minions; not so much. It just means they are great shooters.

I never saw the point of shooting a 250 and being in 12 or 15th place and thinking one had done something extra good. There is only one winner of any contest and it the score if 247 with 5 xes, so what? It still better than the others who competed isn't it?

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
if it made any difference but as a number of shooters have demonstrated, a magazine cut does nothing to hinder accuracy or the rifle's ability to shoot big scores but the barrel and the shooter, now, that's a different matter. Pete
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My Alpine action is one of my best shooting actions --- And if this rule goes thru every one now has a ready made Drop Port...... Just need to cut that open in one of those Davis single shot blocks....

Delete Magazine cut and Magazine - Great news.

JR
 
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