IBS new safety rule

4 Mesh - I really hate to say "that is the way we have always done it", but in this case it may be apropos. As I mentioned in my earlier post, rifles on the line (with bolts OUT of course) are safe. And have been so in the modern benchrest era, starting right after WWII (you real old-timers please let me know if things were different then). I shot in the late 70's and early 80s and they were doing things as we do now. The next competitor puts his equipment and rifle on the bench as soon as the line is clear. It has worked pretty darn well for decades. I am a strong proponent of common sense safety rules and practices that achieve our goal and address the real risks that benchrest shooting generally creates. Let us not, however, become a "nanny state". The point is that we must make sure the bolts are out until the appropriate time thus rendering all this other discussion moot. The bolts are the issue not the rifle.

jks
 
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Jeff,

I hear what you're saying completely and while I did say I don't think the time difference will be as much as people think, there will be a difference and I'm aware of that.

I also cannot disagree with "that's the way we've always done it". My feeling is if people actually read and understood the rules, and followed them, this would not be an issue. Just as I've said above.

My point way back was that I disagree with one rule because I see no possible way for it to help, and actually see a way that it could possibly hurt. I mean, my description of how it can be bad is at least as plausable as these people saying it might help anyhow. But this guns on the line thing, even for a nay-say'r, while it may not get everyone in full agreement, at least both sides can see the others point. On the horn thing, I can't see the other sides point other than as Joel says, "Do it for safety", like the headlight thing.

If nothing else, The no rifles deal should be an easy thing to try and have individual ranges determine how it affects things for them. I know of at least one rangemaster who would have been happy to have had this rule a long time ago.

I think in the closer knit clubs where everyone knows everyone, this sort of thing is not needed. In the clubs where shooters are more transient and change often, it could be a good thing.
 
I believe the "horn" entered the picture as a result of an incident at last years PA States score shoot.From my understanding of the incident,and I was there, it will be a tool that allows one less excuse for a competitor to claim he did not hear the "cease fire command". Again I believe the IBS is at least trying to address situations as they come up.Let's give this a try and work out any pitfalls that occur. I do hope however,the rules are applied equally, as in my short tenure I have observed a tendantcy to give the more prestigious competitor a free pass. This has more to do with the individual clubs and don't know how the IBS can handle this problem.
 
IBS New safety rule

You can never be to safe on a rifle range PERIOD'
I am struggling on a loaded rifle with a stuck bolt though. last year at camillus i did have a spot set up for checking shoulder bump.. this new item with a loaded round is a new one to solve. Luckily we have a pistol range down away from the rifle range to cure that problem. Now I can see only one problem with the stuck round getting it Out. Or removing the barrel to get it out safely and giving the competitor enough time to finish shooting .
I could loan him a rifle and have some one qualified to remove the round safely. That's going to take another person or two to fix.
As long as the rifle is at port arms while carefully being carried to the other range i can see no danger at this point.
I just hope it never happens' this IS one small stumbeling block for us.
I remember to old rule on clearing the rifle on a cease fire.
cease fire by either shooting the round or removing it from the rifle.
The cease fire was called by loud speeker. We would all then step back from our rifles. the range officers could see who was still seated and needed help. adding a horn or bell can't hurt.
 
I imagine many of the Depends wearing contingent object to most of the new safety rules (remember the rants that went on last year over the remaining at your bench, seated and quiet until the cease fire command is given and the RO directs a safe condition) because it is an added task and a change. Just because “it is always the way we have done it” just won’t cut the mustard especially when it relates to safety issues.

For me I give great KUDOS to IBS for this addition to our rules and continuing to make safety a priority issue. In every human endeavor there are those that do not deal very well with rules and regulations that are perceived as unnecessary. Unfortunately, the aforementioned rules are required for the total collectives benefit. In the ever increasing litigious society we exist in today one accident that could have been prevented because of a simple rule would have very dire consequences indeed in a court of law. This would be compounded by a jury who if proven that the rule was once considered “by the rules committee” and then not incorporated into the safety procedures as a result of being” too restrictive or as a nuisance if you will” by the aforementioned committee then the ranges we enjoy shooting at would certainly have new issues to consider. One of these new issues would be making sure that the “Unsafe IBS” sanctioned events would be covered by the cognizant insurance provider who is issuing coverage to the range.

Just something to think about.
 
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Ibs safty rules

Dick Wright Well Mr, Wright he was shooting in the factory class, which we happen to have. And he is pretty good at it, a future IBS member. He is also my Grand son. Dwayne Garfield
 
Excuse me

but I'm new to the sport and haven't even yet shot my first competition. I'm hard of hearing and read this post and then thought does the new rule really make sense? I and a lot of hard of hearing shooters use the amplified muffs to help at the range. If you use a loud blast to signify a danger condition will the muffs not cancel out that sound due to the decibel range? I haven't tried it so I'm asking will it even be audible with electronic muffs? Who's tried this? I can see that it will serve a purpose with passive protection but are we possibly creating another problem rather than solving the first?
 
Good question. I don't use electronic muffs - due to cost and they never state the noise reduction rating ,NR is the terminology I believe. I use the standard Peltor muffs in addition to plugs. I have never had problems hearing R.O. commands- even at the larger ranges-and my hearing is also on the downslide,unfortunately. Is it essential for you to wear the electronic type muff? It is ultimately the competitors responsibilty to be able to receive "communication" from not only the range officer but also at least your nearest competitors. What form of communication that turns out to be may be a work-in-progress thing till we get it worked out.
 
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I agree with Jeff

Good Grief, we are now passing rules because a nine year old is too imature to understand the "bolts out" rule that has served Benchrest for decades. The answer should have been, "A bolt action Rifle with the bolt removed is no more dangerous than a piece of water pipe". If the kid can't understand that, then he needs some lessons in common sense.
This is like that stupid satement, "people are killed with unloaded guns every year". Well, that sounds catchy, and makes for a good sound bite, but the only way a person can be killed with a unloaded Rifle is if you take a couple of major league swings at their head with it. Sorry, if a bullet left the barrel, then it was NOT an unloaded Rifle.
Plus, if you are going to hold a registered competition, sanctioned by either the IBS or NBRSA, you can not institute your own set of rules, whether they be for safety, or equipment. We had a discussion about this a number of years ago when a match director said that he would not allow a Rifle to be used that did not have a trigger guard. Since there is no requirement in the Rule Books about having a trigger guard, the match director was in violation of the Sanctioning Bodies standards. Your rule of no Rifles at the bench during target changes is in violation of the rules set forth by both sanctioning bodies.
I see nothing wrong with a rule that says a range officer should use a air horn or similiar device in order to get shooters attention in the event of an emergency cease fire, (which by the way, is defined in the rule books as being different than a regular cease fire. A loose target IS NOT a case for an emergency cease fire, just the standard variety). But, Not allowing Rifles at Benches during target changes is a good example of good intentions run amuck.
The Bolts Out Rule is what we live by. It has served us well. And, it is TOTALLY adequate for all situations.
I state again. For the rest of the world who dumbs every thing down to the lowest common denominator, arcain rules and silly stements about firearms are accepted. But this is the NBRSA and IBS. We are adults..........jackie
 
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Well it is the new rule so everyone deal with it or ---- just stay home is the bottom line. There are whiners who just hate change even if it is for the better. Now whether you agree that it is better is a different matter but the rules are the rules. Personally, I feel better with the new rules and let’s face it --- we are never going to have fewer rules so just get used to it because it is not going to change. I love it if folks get twisted up in their Depends and maybe they will be thinking about the new rule and the air horn going off rather than making the shot LOL:D!!!

Can you imagine maybe shooting those old cork pop guns at little floating ducks!!:D
 
Funny ,how it seems the score guys are reacting more positively to this "CHANGE" than those of the group persuasion. Wouldn't it be nice if the individual clubs could set their own procedures concerning rifles on benches-oh! thats right they can. Soooooo---If I don't like their policy, I get to stay home with the cook.
What you fail to realize is the growth of score. How many new shooters did YOU run into in the last 2 years? If I remember correctly, score has had an increase of 7%/ year for the last two years---this was despite those gas prices.How do you handle that new nervous guy you don't know from Adam? What if there's 2 or 3 new guys at the same match? Remember your first match? How many matches did it take for you to become adept at all the nuances that it takes to compete? Let me ask you in Texas and California-what is the average years of BR experience of you week-in/week-out competitors? I may be wrong on my assumptions as they are based on the info I gained from years of visiting this website. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You veteran competitors could do most tasks blindfolded,perhaps even shoot. Well our situation is different, remember the incidents mentioned earlier involved new shooters.The actions taken by the IBS and individual clubs (who would know what's best for them but themselves) are welcomed by the majority of shooters attending those matches. I don't understand the commentary.
 
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Bolts Out

Jackie, very well said.
I think it is just amazing that all of this hub-bub was brought about by a few isolated incidents, which were the result of new, inexperienced shooters being left unattended by the experienced shooter who brought them to the match. It seems to me that all shooters are paying for the sins of a few. Knee jerk reaction to any situation rarely solves the problem, but it does remove the hierarchy from the liability aspect. Hmmmm.
 
I'm still

kind of curious how, where and when you guys are going to clean your guns if they can never be pointed at any one else. Perhaps I don't have a good understanding of that part of the solution.

Shelley
 
emrgency signal

International emergency signal is mostly an "slow whoop" (going up in pitch), at least at every industrial site on- and offshore I have been to. It is more alerting then a simple tone with a constant pitch.
Hearing the slow whoop attracts most people's attention very quickly.
My 2 cents...

Albert B
 
LHSmith said:
Funny ,how it seems the score guys are reacting more positively to this "CHANGE" than those of the group persuasion. Wouldn't it be nice if the individual clubs could set their own procedures concerning rifles on benches-oh! thats right they can. Soooooo---If I don't like their policy, I get to stay home with the cook.
What you fail to realize is the growth of score. How many new shooters did YOU run into in the last 2 years? If I remember correctly, score has had an increase of 7%/ year for the last two years---this was despite those gas prices.How do you handle that new nervous guy you don't know from Adam? What if there's 2 or 3 new guys at the same match? Remember your first match? How many matches did it take for you to become adept at all the nuances that it takes to compete? Let me ask you in Texas and California-what is the average years of BR experience of you week-in/week-out competitors? I may be wrong on my assumptions as they are based on the info I gained from years of visiting this website. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You veteran competitors could do most tasks blindfolded,perhaps even shoot. Well our situation is different, remember the incidents mentioned earlier involved new shooters.The actions taken by the IBS and individual clubs (who would know what's best for them but themselves) are welcomed by the majority of shooters attending those matches. I don't understand the commentary.
Click to expand...

Well score is and should be what it is all about then followed by group size!! I always get a big laugh at the group guys who wet themselves after shooting a screamer when it only scores in the high 30's!!!! The objective of shooting is to put the projectile in the center of the target PERIOD!!! It is a good thing I don't make the rules but maybe someday the light will come on:rolleyes:!!!!
 
Putting a group in the middle of the mothball is just a few clicks work !!! :)
 
This thread has certainly taken on a life of its own. I think it indicates that, as we are looking into the eyeballs of February, the winter doldrums have gotten some of us ornery and most of us need a few sessions at a shooting bench to get back to what we like to do.

What we, as shooters, have to understand is that we are not living in the "old days" any more. Like it or not, some of us are becoming dinosaurs by our attitudes. I talk with young adults every day who haven't any idea what I'm talking about when I mention World War II. I haven't found one that can even tell me when or where it was. There are five waitresses at my local diner, all high school graduates and three of them attending the local state college. Not one of them could name the governor of our state.

Our local elementary school has automatic locks on the doors. Once the kids are in in the morning, the staff closes all the doors and no one can get in without going through screening. Part of the reason for this is parents trying to steal kids from the other parent or trying to have contact when the court has said they can't. That's not the world I grew up in.

One of the young people I have befriended lately has siblings, step-siblings and half-siblings and her mother is living with a guy who isn't the father of any of them. At 23 years old she has no recollection of her father. Her value system is nothing like mine; we were raised in two different worlds.

All I'm trying to say is that the so-called general public we are dealing with today isn't the same one most of us grew up with. Some of these situations may be focused in Vermont because we have been overrun with yuppies from "down country" who want to spend the rest of their lives looking at the pretty mountains. But, if you don't have these situations in your state, you will.

Lots of the new people coming into benchrest shooting were not in "the war", never had a Dad take them hunting, and outside of a "hunter safety course" have very little experience with firearms. Some of our deer reporting stations have had to move the scales around back because of public complaints about poor little Bambi's hanging on the scales.

Do I think it is a serious safety issue that guns without bolts are on the benches while the target crew is downrange? No. But there is something disquieting about sitting at my bench, getting my gun set in the bags, and looking through the scope with the crosshairs right on the back of the guy changing the target. Does it hurt anything to wait a couple minutes before putting the guns on the benches. No, it's just different.

As for the "hailer", lots of our shooters use electronic muffs. The "hailer" is clearly heard with them. I believe we can safely welcome shooters with less-than-perfect hearing into benchrest. The "hailer" is a very common sense method of announcing to the entire firing line that something needs immediate attention. We've had a few jokes about it, but overall it has been well received.

Our firearms and the sport we love are under attack and a lot of it is because of an attitude in society that "guns are for killing". I believe that everything we can do to demonstrate our ability to do what we do with every effort made toward providing a safe environment can only help us in the long run. It's not like the old days, but it may see my grandchildren into the "new" days with the right to bear arms.

By the way, the nine-year-old was never at the bench alone, was well supervised and coached by his Dad, and I wish we had a dozen more just like him to come and shoot with us.
 
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