Heavy sand?

How can you find a record that was shot on bad bags last week to be illegal once the match is over and everyone has gone home? You have 30 minutes to protest. That goes for the competitors, referees, match director, records committee. Also, as I've said so often, there is no sense making rules you can't enforce. We have to self govern and who wants to be a volunteer referee where you spend the whole day being the Gestapo?
But the original post asked about heavy sand and one other guy has said Black Diamond sand works well. You can buy it at Tractor Supply and other places.
 
How can you find a record that was shot on bad bags last week to be illegal once the match is over and everyone has gone home? You have 30 minutes to protest. That goes for the competitors, referees, match director, records committee. Also, as I've said so often, there is no sense making rules you can't enforce. We have to self govern and who wants to be a volunteer referee where you spend the whole day being the Gestapo?
But the original post asked about heavy sand and one other guy has said Black Diamond sand works well. You can buy it at Tractor Supply and other places.

There may be too much Gestapoing going on in the world now. Also we do need to exercise our rights within the envelope of the rules in order to take Benchrest forward.
 
Yep definitely non metallic is stated in the rules. Thats why lead shot cannot be used. It might not be a ferromagnetic type of metal but it is metallic. So is Zircon, Titamiun etc. One day someone will wake up to this and ban that sort of sand. I wonder if that were to happen if any records shot on bags using that sort of sand would still stand ?
Andy.


What I was saying was that the Zircon in the sand is in a crystalline form and legal. You could use lead if it was in the form of Galena. That's an ore of lead...

I don't know if you'd want to though. We get are exposed to enough lead. It sounds like something out of a horror movie to use a bag of any form of lead for a rest. Could you imagine slapping away at an old bag of lead shot all oxidized white inside?
 
Not to be a pooper on a thread this old but bart sauter just wrote an article on sandbags this past summer thats an end all discussion. I havent seen speedy's name on a match report in years.
 
Just for fun, Google zirconium silicate and click on images, then go read the IBS rule pertaining to bag fill material. I think that it is kind of amusing. It seems to me that this is of no practical consequence, but I doubt that very many shooters who shoot IBS sanctioned matches, and use some kind of heavy sand in their bag(s) that are actually using the stuff that is specified in the rules...if they are buying their material from one of the vendors that serves the shooting community. Perhaps someone should revisit the wording of that rule.

A while back, I looked up the IBS, and NBRSA rules for bags and fill for both long and short range. They are not identical by sanctioning body, or distance.

Recently, I have looked over the new NBRSA long range rule book, paying particular attention to the part that deals with sand bag fill materials.

" A sandbag is defined as a bag with or without a pedestal, with a

leather or cloth cover, that is capable of
being easily flexed by the
fingers, and contains a dry finely divided nonmetallic substance
such as, but not limited to, sand, gravel, or grain, without additive
and packed loosely enough that the bag can be easily deformed
by pressure of the fingers. The
cover of the sandbag must not be
bound in such a manner to prohibit free movement of the
contents.
Velcro cloth may be used on sandbags ONLY in Long
-
Range BR Shooting Competitions.
Lubricants such as talcum
powder, Vaseline, mica or friction reducing tap
e of no more than
.011" total thickness may be used on the bag for lubrication."

Within this rule there are a couple of things that short range shooters may find interesting, first that the allowed fill material list is longer and more liberal, secondly that there is a short range rule contained in the long range rules, specifically pertaining to the use of Velcro on bags. I mention this because It is my understanding that at least one successful short range shooter currently uses Velcro on his bags, something that may not have been previously been addressed, and which he may not have thought to look in the long range rules for for guidance.

Perhaps someone could enlighten us as to why the NBRSA long range and short range rules differ as to allowed bag fill. If the long range rule is a survivor from an earlier time, and was previously the rule for both, perhaps consideration of making it cover both distances might be considered, if that had been the case in the past. On the other hand, if the rules came from different sources, tha t would be another matter.
 
I think the equipment is so much different that its a non issue Boyd. Long range folks use lots bigger and different shaped bags
 
Funny how they mention velcro specifically. I havent seen that on a bag in years. Ive got a few that has and some thats had velcro. Sucks theyre ruined now from either the glue residue or unusable because they still have it on em and wont shoot because they were nice bags
 
Not to be a pooper on a thread this old but bart sauter just wrote an article on sandbags this past summer thats an end all discussion. I havent seen speedy's name on a match report in years.


My Google Foo is failing me. I can't find it. I remember reading some of Bart's theories on bags at the beginning of one of these threads on bags I think. I don't even see it now.

If you can remember where maybe you could post it.
 
It came out in the BR magazine this past summer then he posted it on here a bit later. If I find it ill let you know
 
It came out in the BR magazine this past summer then he posted it on here a bit later. If I find it ill let you know


That's the one. I think I read it on here a while back.

I've got a new front bag on order and have been going over these front rest post. I'm having a hard time pulling away from wanting a hard front bag. The part about a rifle being perched up on two hard slick bags (riding on air and roller bearings) and real easy to jar does make for a good argument for some cushion for a little hold.



Still...


droolingHomer.jpg



Mmmmmm Riding on air and roller bearings!


Actually reading through the article again I had an vision of what I think he was trying to point out about the bag ride and feel. Whether I can achieve it despite myself may be another thing.
 
Remember- leather leather and leather. Soft leather none of the slide off the rest slick stuff. Bart is a professional equipment tester. He has the time and place to test everything 24hrs a day if need be. Im a firm believer after we tested my stuff and culled some. He has the means to show it on paper where it matters
 
Remember- leather leather and leather. Soft leather none of the slide off the rest slick stuff. Bart is a professional equipment tester. He has the time and place to test everything 24hrs a day if need be. Im a firm believer after we tested my stuff and culled some. He has the means to show it on paper where it matters

Leather? leather? and leather? Now I think you've gone to far.

I do have an old leather rear bag I could swap in and give it a try. It's a rear bag I bought at a sporting goods store, if I remember right. It's got no snob appeal what-so-ever. That'd be just my luck if it worked.
 
Im not saying ditch your fancy bag for something they sell at walmart next to the shooting vices. You can get your favorite bag in all leather. All that fancy slick stuff they put on em now including cordura just dont work. Leather and talcum powder is where its at- front and back.
 
I think that if we look around, that we may see examples of shooters that do very well with different equipment, and that the takeaway from this should be that experimenting is the best approach. Evidently slick has worked for some shooters (thinking of a Youtube video of Charles Huckeba shooting a small one at the WBC), and has not been so good for others.

As far as hard front bags go, I remember a discussion with Wilbur some years back in which he told me that he knew of some shooters that were shooting very well with front bags that were very hard. I would guess that this was because of the characteristics of their rifles, and perhaps their shooting style. We were discussing bag hardness, tracking, and the rules.

With the popularity of joystick rests these days, lacking any experience with one, I wonder if, for those shooters who use one, tracking is important, or if softer bags could be used without much disadvantage. Personally, I have wondered about some of the leather front bags that I have seen that are not produced by manufacturers that are not favored by the benchrest community. They seem to be made of different leather.
 
Gimme an example of those off popular brand bags Boyd. People I see winning matches use protektor, edgewood and the original bald eagles along with very few using original farley bags. Protektor seems to have the majority on rear bags because of price and selection along with their impeccable customer service when it comes to custom work.
 
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