Clarification of new IBS Proposal SC#4

D

Donnie Nash

Guest
Can someone clarify the intent of the new propasal for mutiple rifles of IBS,when does the person have to designate the rifle he will shoot ,and does it mean that the person that shoots more than one rifle of the same class if he were to finish 1st and 3rd would the shooters that finished behind the shooter of more than one gun move up in the placement or would they be deprived of the points and trophy?

Awaiting the fall out with my asbestos suit.
 
for those of us who don't know what sc4 is why doesn't someone explain it?
 
Something Wrong

I have always thought that there was something wrong in allowing a shooter to shoot more than one Rifle in the same class. (I guess they are on two separate relays).

I suppose that the reason they do it is to garner more SoY points. Or am I wrong on this.

Expalin........jackie
 
I think if they have a bad match with one they can make up for it with the other
 
The rule change is being proposed so a shooter can only compete with one rifle, per class. There has been no restriction in the past that a shooter could sign up for two or even three guns of the same class, and place with each one. So if this shooter did particularly well, he/she could place first, second and third in the same match (if shooting 3 guns).

If passed, a shooter can shoot multiple guns, but has to designate which one is for "record". Only that designated gun will be recorded. The other gun/s are for fun only.
 
Here goes...if passed, the rule would require any shooter that wishes to shoot more than 1 gun in a single class to designate a "record" gun before the match starts. That rifle would be the only rifle that would count for placing in the match as well as SSOY points. So the other rifle would get you more bench time, but that is all. There is some question as to the difference between HVS and LVS, that I think the E-Board has recommended be re-worded. Anyhow, this has been a hot topic for score shooters over the last couple years, and we'll see how it comes out at the meeting. Remember, all these proposed items if passed serve a one year term as it were, and are then voted on by the entire IBS membership.
 
thanks for the explanation hal,now what's the general consensus on this issue?
 
Donnie Nash said:
I think if they have a bad match with one they can make up for it with the other
Click to expand...

Actually, I can think of a few different reasons for shooting more than one gun. One is getting more bang for your buck. Traveling to a State match with 2 aggs over 2 days leaves me wanting if I don't shoot 2 guns. There are some guys that shoot a 6X and a VFS gun for this reason. Some shoot a LV and a HV, others 2LV's, and others 2HV's. The reasons are from getting more shots at records to a better chance at SSOY points. Remember that as it stands now though, only your best gun counts for SSOY points. But you are right in that you do get 2 chances if you shoot 2 rifles, but it goes deeper than that as well. More bench time equals getting in better harmony with the conditions, and your equipment. I was talking to a long range BR shooter that told me that the agenda item should go a step further. His contention is that the second gun always has a big advantage over the first, and accordingly, the "record" rifle should be the first. When I went through the match reports a while back, I realized just how right he is. My first rifle finished ahead of my second almost every time I shot a match, and I alternated which rifle went to the line first, for part of the year. There seems to be a good following for this item, but I still think we are in for a heated discussion in a few weeks...
 
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longrange223 said:
thanks for the explanation hal,now what's the general consensus on this issue?
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Randy, I'm getting ready to head out the door...But Apple will be chiming in soon to give you his take for sure. It's split, but I think there's a decent amount of support for it.
 
Shooting two guns certainly would have it's downsides...but I like the rule if it is as Hal describes it. The big advantage that I see from shooting 2 guns in the same class has been that if you drop a point or whatever,(shoot poorly) with one gun, you could put it away and continue with the better scoring gun or shoot them both in case you do the same with the other.(that's what I would probably do). It was a second chance gun...so to speak. It would have to be a big advantage in the points if both are scored and you gain points with both,too. That said, you still pay for two guns and you would still have to steer them both. This game costs enough with keeping one gun going for most people. If two are allowed, it will just raise the cost of our sport that much more to be in contention. Not that I can contend for much but, if it takes two guns, that what I'll do to contend. That doesn't help getting new shooters involved though. They are the future of the sport, like it or not. Most people are intimidated by the cost of just one gun. The next Tony B.,or Hal Drake :)could be out there and just can't afford our game as it is already. JMHO.----Mike Ezell


Yea, I typed too slow. Hal mentioned some of the same too.
 
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Go to InternationalBenchrest.com

longrange223 said:
for those of us who don't know what sc4 is why doesn't someone explain it?
Click to expand...

All the proposed agenda items are available for any person who is interested by clicking on the link very near the top of the main page of the IBS webpage. Look for the Red Bold sentence near the top click on the line immediately below it .

For easier discussion here is SC4

SC4.jpg
 
John Kielly said:
Mike,

I was taught that winning is about being positive about yourself.

You typed fine. Hal types overly fast. ;)

John
Click to expand...

John,
I just hope to get better at shooting and typing. Now if I could be as good as Hal at both...well, that'd be o.k. too.---Mike:)
Happy New Year!!!
 
Dick,

When is a shooter required to declare the gun that he wishes to count? The rule looks like I could drop a point on the first target and the first relay, and then pay for another gun to shoot in the next relay.---Mike Ezell

I know that's not what Hal said but maybe he's not perfect!:):)
 
Reasonable Rules

I will be voting for the new ammendment. I have nothing aginst shooters shooting more than one Rifle, but just declare which one is "for real" before the match begins. You can still gain all the extra info from shooting another Rifle, or as many as you are willing to pay an entry for...........jackie
 
Shooting two guns

There is one thing that no one is considering,.... Down south there are not as many shooters as there are up in the north, the aspect of only getting 1/2
points at a shoot is very real when only 8 or 9 shooters show up. The aspect of some shooters shooting two guns at the match gives those folks the same chance as the matches up north where there many more people that show up to shoot. When two or more shooters shoot the two guns then
the needed 10 shooters are considered for full points for a win. This needs to be taken into consideration for the folks down south are already at a disadvantage by the number of matches and state matches that are available
without traveling great distances just to be even. I believe that this new
rule would hinder even more the uneven playing field that already exist.
For those that think that shooting two guns of the same or different classes
is easy,they should consider that no two guns are alike, and when shooting two that your time on the range is full with no time to adjust loads, most of the time you have to come pre-loaded with the hope that it works. Another
point is that when shooting two guns that two fees are required, this gives the ranges more money to operate with. Some matches cannot be run when only 7-8 or 9 shooters show up, due to the fact that the range people cannot run these matches for free or for a loss. I have listened to all the people that say No we should be allowed to shoot two of the same class,
and most of them if not all are from areas where they do not have a problem
getting people on the weekends to shoot. Down here we have lost ranges due to the fact that Ranges have increased there fees to run due to not having enough shooters to make a profit or break even. The aspect of the
folks that have two guns makes the difference. I ask that before you people
make a ruling on this that you take a moment to think about this.
 
???????

Ron, I am confused about something. Since you can now only recvieve points for one Rifle, regardless of how many you shoot, how would the ammendment affect the awarding of points at the end of the day??........jackie
 
I would take exception

Hal D. said:
Actually, I can think of a few different reasons for shooting more than one gun. One is getting more bang for your buck. Traveling to a State match with 2 aggs over 2 days leaves me wanting if I don't shoot 2 guns. There are some guys that shoot a 6X and a VFS gun for this reason. Some shoot a LV and a HV, others 2LV's, and others 2HV's. The reasons are from getting more shots at records to a better chance at SSOY points. Remember that as it stands now though, only your best gun counts for SSOY points. But you are right in that you do get 2 chances if you shoot 2 rifles, but it goes deeper than that as well. More bench time equals getting in better harmony with the conditions, and your equipment. I was talking to a long range BR shooter that told me that the agenda item should go a step further. His contention is that the second gun always has a big advantage over the first, and accordingly, the "record" rifle should be the first. When I went through the match reports a while back, I realized just how right he is. My first rifle finished ahead of my second almost every time I shot a match, and I alternated which rifle went to the line first, for part of the year. There seems to be a good following for this item, but I still think we are in for a heated discussion in a few weeks...
Click to expand...

With the statement that the first rifle will be the best one. I have shot two and sometimes three rifles for a number of years, never shooting two rifles in the same class, mind you but from my experience, one of the rifles will shoot better than the othre (s) but not necessarily the first one. I have found that it is all dependent on the condition cycle. Some relays, which are condition dependent, will be better than others, dependent on the day but are for sure better throughout the day. I have competed with two rifles of the same chambering for several years and on almost any given day one of them will yield a better score than the other and they will flip-flop from match to match.

With the 6 power game, the BEST score of the day is the one that gets the SSOY points, regardless of the class. When I have shot one 6-x class and VFS in the same day I have shot VH with the 6-x rifle, trying to support that class as there are generally more Hunter rifles. If we don't support ALL the classes, the ones lacking are more likely to die. As far as the points are concerned, the BEST score is the champion of the day, I will remind you.

In my opinion, the proposed rules change should provide room for an LVFS class, which has been offered by at least one shooting venue. In my opinion, more, within reason, is better but I would go one step further. I would limit LVFS and VH to a max caliber of 6MM. That way, there could be some true diversity to the sport and that could add another dimension to the game. If those die hard PPC shooters stay away because of the hole size now, a restriction on LVFS and VH could provide them with an avenue back to us.

Happy New Year Y'all. Pete
 
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