Benchrest handicap

At the expense of offending several people, here goes. I don't have any data on the demographic of shooters currently in the sport, but looking around the average guy would be about 65 and retired. There's a limited number of these people that, in retirement, can afford to shoot very much, due to many factors, cost of travel being the primary factor. Most of these guys have all the equipment they need. There is a limited number of these guys around and match attendance reflects this.

If we want more shooters we need to make the sport more appealing to a younger group. I'm not sure how to pull this off. I do think the target group would be empty nesters. Attending a lot of matches is a difficult thing to do for guys with families. I know we like it when shooters get their kids and grandkids involved in the sport but as soon as a kid, goes to college, gets married and starts a family, bench shooting falls in the ditch, not enough time or money, except in special circumstances. That leaves the aforementioned group of people that are past all that. So the question is how do we get empty nesters to come shoot.

I don't know. I have many friends in this group that shoot other disciplines, getting these guys to even try bench shooting is difficult. The message needs a lot of work. As a guy that falls in this group, that's still working, I can share a few things that need improvement.

The match scheduling, allotment of loading benches, and camping spots should be on a reserved basis. It's tough to go to a match after working all week and find all the loading benches and parking spots taken by a bunch of guys that have the time to get there a few days early. When a guy complains most match directors will say something like tough sh*t, that tends to piss a guy off, especially after driving most of the night to get there. It also impacts his attendance for the next match at that range. People are involved in sports they think they're getting a fair shake in. It's already enough of a disadvantage to take on a bunch of guys that have been there working on their setup for two days.

Moving forward, it looks like we may need the services of somebody with marketing skills that can help us with the message and a plan. We should have, in the membership, such a person.
 
Just to offer another perspective to this topic. I run the Benchrest, as well as several other club matches, at the Iosco Sportsmens Club in East Tawas, Michigan. We are located on the shores of Lake Huron and the County is mostly comprised of State and National Forrest land. We see a large variety of fun activities.

As far as Benchrest shooting being too expensive for those with young families, I just can't see it. In the winter the forrests are full of young families running the trails on snow machines. When they arrive in town they are pulling trailors with several snow machines. These are not cheap by a long shot. If the snow conditions are not to their liking, driving another 150-200 miles to get to Michigans upper peninsula is not a deterrent. In the summer months they are on the lakes and rivers with jet skis, jet boats, and pontoons. The forrests are also full of people running the trails on quads and dirt bikes.

As far as shooting at the clubs matches, I try to encourage as many people as I can to participate. We get a lot of people who have no interest in competition. The pistol ranges are full on weekends with those who bring a lot of ammo to shoot up. When I talk to the rifle shooters they have several cases with AR style rifles and seem more intersted in going through a case of ammo and are less concerned with accuracy.

I certainly don't have any answers to the problem, but I just do what I can to accomodate everybody that shows up to shoot my matches.
 
pablo said:
So the question is how do we get empty nesters to come shoot.
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Talk a fellow shooter into attending a local match. Lend them a benchrest rifle if you have a second, or even a good varmint rifle. Then let 'em have at it. Doesn't matter if they're competitive or not. It'll at least give them a feel for the sport.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Benchrest

pablo said:
Moving forward, it looks like we may need the services of somebody with marketing skills that can help us with the message and a plan. We should have, in the membership, such a person.
Click to expand...




If you’re not going to offend anybody, you don't need the first amendment.

I don’t see how any organization involved in recreational Sports could disagree with the above advice, by Pablo. I will add that, that person(s) need to be an action oriented, people person. Every single Range needs that special person with a little creativeness.

People will not automatically come to the Sport. You have to bring the Sport to the People.

That responsibility rests on the shoulders of every single NBRSA and IBS member.
I agree with Lee Martin, Bring a friend to a match. Let them shoot your extremely accurate Benchrest Rifle. They may decide to take the plunge. It worked with me. Think about what got you into competitive Shooting. There are people out there just like you, yet to be discovered.

Accept the fact that we don’t have the luxury of employing a professional marketing/ recruitment department, similar to what exists in some of the large Sports Organizations. Some of which, are busting their Buns, trying to recruit new members.

Attrition in any Sport is unavoidable. For some of us old farts, its time to pass the baton to the next generation of Benchrest Competitors. The Walker County Range and Owner Larry Deese is a perfect example how to make Benchrest Competition "Great again." I hope his efforts are successful.


Glenn
 
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sandiego1948 said:
andy..
they do all of that WITH THEIR FAMILY.
joint fun.
try convincing a 12yr old that shooting 5 small groups over one whole
day is the same fun.
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Totally agree. Most people nowadays have no interest in shooting at paper targets. They want bowling pins, falling plates, bottles, ballons or just about anything that blows up when shot.
How can we compete with that?
 
Many of us find our interest in benchrest comes from a combination of factors that came into play in a sequence. First we became shooters, then we became reloaders, and about the same time we learned that in addition to the accuracy gains that reloading afforded us, that some rifle tuning might enhance those results. Usually, it is after those things have happened, while looking for a way to keep going in the direction of more accuracy, that an interest in benchrest happened...but only for a small fraction of those that ended up reloading and rifle tuning. It is sort of like a pyramid. IMO in order to bring shooters along to the point where they might be interested in benchrest, we need to help them at the less complex stages of their march toward increasing accuracy. By doing this we become known as reliable resources of useful information who might be worth emulating. The problem with this is that it is a one at a time, individual thing, and dedicated benchrest competitors generally have all that they can say grace over pursuing their own shooting goals. They may not spend much time mentoring shooters who are not yet interested in the sport, just as they may not take the time to run the clubs where their matches are held, or build the ranges that are so necessary to their sport. No this is not an answer to how to come up with more competitors. It is merely an observation.
 
sandiego1948 said:
I'll go right back to Jackie.
Add a class for "stock" rifles.
No high dollar, br calibers, mid
range,off the shelf stuff.
Then advertise at your club.
Let people know it is a friendly low
pressure fun event.
Low dollar entry
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...and swallow your pride and call it "tactical"...and they will come.:).
 
At Walker County, Larry also has what he calls "Shatterblast" Matches. The distance is 250 yards, and 400 yards. The targets are 2 inch diameter clay disc.

At 250 yards, you have a sight in period, and then you shoot at 10 disc, with only 10 loaded rounds allowed on the bench. You do this 4 times. Flags are allowed.

At at 400 yards, you shoot at 7 disc at a time, with 10 loaded rounds allowed on the bench.

This is pretty popular. Larry gets more shooters at these than he does his Registered Group or VFS Benchrest Matches. The entry is pretty high, you shoot for cash back.

Except for no Tail Guns, there are no rules limiting the Rifles. You see 6BRs, Dashers, 7mm's, 223's, even 6PPC's. Joe Duke won last years 400 with his own version of a improved 284 on a Stiller Action,in a homemade Benchrest stock, weighs about 26 pounds. Shoots "lights out".

You have to be a serious shooter with some serious equipment to be competitive at these shoots. But it's a lot of fun.
 
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Schizophrenia

In one of the posts above I was designated as being Schizo by a poster who really knows their stuff about benchrest!!


Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.....

The causes of schizophrenia include environmental and genetic factors. Possible environmental factors include being raised in a city, cannabis use, certain infections, parental age, and poor nutrition during pregnancy.

So???

Is this a problem? I kind of agree with the poor nutrition part during pregnancy.


That may be our solution. Have a Schizo handicap class.

/
 
The current form of Benchrest shooting can't be changed without losing more competitors. The reason for the decline is the cost of attending a match. I don't see any way to fix that. How would changing anything reduce that cost?
 
Wilbur said:
The current form of Benchrest shooting can't be changed without losing more competitors. The reason for the decline is the cost of attending a match. I don't see any way to fix that. How would changing anything reduce that cost?
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Wilbur, I doubt that adding a "little boys" class would drive away the "big boys." Why would they care if the wannabe shooters win "little boy" awards?

Also, I wonder why the "current form of Benchrest shooting" seems to be so sacrosanct. What's so special about a two-day (or longer) group shoot? What's so special about a "registered" match? Why do many BR shooters avoid club matches?

As for your second sentence, I don't think the attendance at big-time sporting events has declined significantly, although the cost of attending is high. I think the issue is that the perceived benefits of attending far-away matches suffers a steep decline among many shooters after they've done it a few times -- but, that's just another way of saying what you said. :)
 
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Wilbur said:
The current form of Benchrest shooting can't be changed without losing more competitors. The reason for the decline is the cost of attending a match. I don't see any way to fix that. How would changing anything reduce that cost?
Click to expand...


maybe, jackpot the entry and have a payback.

lets see, the shamrock had 60 pay up and at 100 bucks that is 6 thou to pay out.
 
?Benchrest handicap

instead of handicaps How about Classification,s while the new shooter is coming up.
Based on group averages and aggs until the learning curve is finished,
Some small awards for middle of the pack shooters.
That might keep some from quitting the game. I mentioned this quite few times but it falls on deaf ears.
 
ray porter said:
maybe, jackpot the entry and have a payback.

lets see, the shamrock had 60 pay up and at 100 bucks that is 6 thou to pay out.
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Ray, at Tomball, which is a limited membership club set at 300, we have maybe 15 serious Benchrest Shooters.

That attitude of the other 285, including the BOD, is we can have our Matches, (Club and NBRSA Registered), as long as it doesn't cost the club any money.

Targets, trophys, target crew, scorer, fees, etc are taken out of the entry fees. There isn't a lot left over.
 
Registered benchrest is THE class we have elected to play. Club matches would be a different class and probably more fun for the beginner. Generally, you shoot the club matches, then as you get better, decide if you want to shoot the registered matches, it's a personal decision. To make things more interesting, especially when you have nothing really working, you make a small bet with your friends. A friend and I have been betting with each other for the last 25 years, he's up $8.00. I appreciate the argument from both sides, but to me, I decided to play with the big boys, where there is no quarter asked and no quarter given.
 
We know why it's dying...and we don't care. The rest of the world doesn't matter. Our minds are not closed, no tunnel vision, deaf ears or hard headedness. We don't want to change to accommodate anything or anybody because if we do we're not shooting the game we love to shoot. Get over it...we have. When it's gone, it's gone.

Some of you may read this as if I'm trying to elude to something and I assure you I'm not. I meant every word.
 
Since its dying maybe I should have just sold my rifle and NOT had another one built. Well I guess I can sell that one too. ? Such a great sport I can't give up on it yet. It's the only thing I have stayed with any length of time. I guess in the future it will look good mounted on the wall........ shoooot maybe a good hunting rifle........ I still would rather shoot small groups than a twenty point buck ?

And thanks again Charlie Hood for what y'all did

What's weird to me though I never thought us "southerners" would not turn out and loose matches but you look out west where everyone suppose to hate guns man they have good turn outs at their matches (at least that's what our magazine looks like every month) and I'm sure the northerners have good turn outs too. I promise if I win the lottery I will have a place for us to shoot....... after I buy a place at the beach first ?

So while we are on here talking and getting mad at each other the top dogs are practicing and getting ready for the next match....... wonder why they are better? ?
 
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Fees to shoot vary quite a bit. In my area, it's been the same $30 to shoot a grand agg score event at most ranges, both IBS and UBR, for at least ten years now. This is an all day, one day, long event and includes lunch, mostly. IBS has it's annual fee on top of the $30, for membership. I haven't looked in a while but it use to be $50 for membership to IBS. UBR has no membership fee to the competitor. Their fees are minimal and paid by the host club.

Scoring a score taget, I would imagine, is much faster than measuring individual groups, so it moves quickly and without the need for a dedicated scoring team of people. Typically, 3 referees are selected from the participants, who handle the scoring and ref'ing. One or two usually do most of the scoring and the other one or two are used when there is a shot that needs to be eyeballed by the three refs to conclude if it's in or out of a respective scoring ring. These refs are typically selected based in part on having been around the game for a while and knowing how things are done. Occasionally, you bring in a new ref as someone who gives their opinion of in or out on close "line lickers." This trains a new ref and helps sustain the overall group, with experienced scorers and referees.

Same goes for target crews, but often, the same underappreciated few do most of the work...but, you still bring in the new guy to the target crew on occasion for the same reasons as above, with scorers/refs.

One person can handle the job of match director...and still shoot at least one gun, as can the refs.

So, with a little bit of cooperation, everyone shoots, noone does it all, and everyone has a full day of shooting for a reasonable fee.

To summarize...In Benchrest for Score, you typically have a full 1 day of shooting, no one does all the work, ranges don't need moving backers, paid scoring teams or target crews...all for about 30 bucks. No nearly week long shoots that attendees must be off of work for, that I'm aware of in score shooting. Much for the reasons I've mentioned already.

While I would like to attend a Super Shoot, compare MY cost of shooting one, to that of a registered score match. First of all, there are several venues for score shoots in my area...(I don't think this is coincidence vs group shoots). So, I travel minutes instead of days, pay $30 instead of hundreds, no motels, no missed work..and basically everyone is shooting the same equipment as at a group match.

UBR has an active factory class, which serves as a level playing field for new shooters that want to give BR a try, and at a very reasonable fee. Of course, this class is a breeding ground for long term competitors that hopefully and typically do, move up in class.
It also has a Modified class, for anyone with a modified and/or rebarreled rifle to compete in, It has Custom class, which is made up of precisely the same guns as a group shoot, EXCEPT, being caliber neutral, not everyone is shooting the same cartridge!
It also has an Unlimited class, for anyone that has a rifle that doesn't fit into one of the other classes.

There are a lot of on topic points in this post if one can put aside a group vs. score bias.

Think about it. The group format , while it may be preferential to some, offers many major complications to growth. While clubs can't sustain without shooters...shooters of registered matches can't sustain without clubs, either...Both are vital to one another.

In this day, club/range time and manpower are at a premium. Without the clubs, the sport dies. All bias aside...is it any wonder, group shooting is in decline?

That's all I've got on this subject and I don't want and won't argue about it. These are just my thoughts on a subject that's important to myself and all of us on this board.--Mike
 
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