You'll just have to break out your 6ppc if you want to see sub .25 MOA accuracy

[Hunter]

The title of this thread is a quote I saw on the 260/280 thread. I thought of sending the author of the quote a PM; however, I thought it would be nice to get more than one opinion -- thus, this thread.

Recently, I started shooting a factory 6PPC, and I'm no where close to .25 MOA. Is .25 MOA, realistically, attainable with a factory gun? If it is, do you have any suggestions as to powder and bullet?

 

[Boyd Allen]

Obviously, the accuracy of a rifle is the result of a combination of many factors, only one of which is the caliber. Tell us about the rifle, any modifications, what load you are shooting, and the equipment you are using to shoot it. (rest, bags, flags, bench, and perhaps scope) How did you arrive at the load?

 

[Hunter]

Tell us about the rifle, any modifications, what load you are shooting, and the equipment you are using to shoot it. (rest, bags, flags, bench, and perhaps scope) How did you arrive at the load?

Cooper varmint, no modifications (haven't even lightened the trigger from its current setting of ~ 2 lbs); shooting 28 gr of N133 in Lapua brass w/ 62 gr custom bullets, seated out to where just a smidgen is in the neck; using bean bags (front and rear) and a Weaver 36 scope, and watching wind flags. Load obtained from prior gun owner. I don't know how he arrived at that load; however, I saw him shoot a 493-9x with that load. My only score shoot resulted in a 486-13x (dropped 12 points at 200 yds); my only group shoot resulted in a 100/200 agg of .6032 (no laughing, please ).

As before, is it realistic to think .25 MOA is attainable with a factory gun?

 

[goodgrouper]

Cooper varmint, no modifications; shooting 28 gr of N133 w/ 62 gr custom bullets; using bean bags (front and rear) and a Weaver 36 scope, and watching wind flags. Load obtained from prior gun owner. I don't know how he arrived at that load; however, I saw him shoot a 493-9x with that load. My only score shoot resulted in a 486-13x (dropped 12 points at 200 yds).

As before, is it realistic to think .25 MOA is attainable with a factory gun?

The 6ppc cartridge is capable of sustained sub-quarter moa accuracy. The rifle on the other hand is a different story!

Have you tried different loads or loading at the range?
Have you tried shooting your rifle from a dedicated rest and bag setup?

I would think that by doing these things, you would see .25 MOA accuracy--well, if the barrel is in halfway decent shape anyways.......

 

[MarkR]

The title of this thread is a quote I saw on the 260/280 thread. I thought of sending the author of the quote a PM; however, I thought it would be nice to get more than one opinion -- thus, this thread.

Recently, I started shooting a factory 6PPC, and I'm no where close to .25 MOA. Is .25 MOA, realistically, attainable with a factory gun? If it is, do you have any suggestions as to powder and bullet?

Sustainable .25 MOA is not all that easy to achieve with any rifle let alone a factory rifle. With the information you have provided, the answer is nearly impossible. Rifle used, brass, bullets, powder, seating depth (with relation to rifleing), trigger pull weight, wind flags, experience and so on.
One could conceivably shoot a 250 on an IBS 100 yd or 200 yd score target and not achieve anywhere close to .25 MOA.
Sure there are a line full of people at most BR matches that shoot .200 or less aggs (most of the time) but these are very proficient shooters, most with tons of experience.

 

[Boyd Allen]

I suggest that you do your own load workup with a longer bullet, something like a 68 gr. Berger. If you were hunting, a hand me down load might be OK, but if you want the best from your rifle, it is time to get serious, and do a methodical load workup...at the range.

 

[Hunter]

[D]o a methodical load workup.

Can you offer suggestions as to how much "pain" to take with that --- in other words, how many options to try? I'd think one could easily go through a barrel trying the almost-infinite number of seating depths and powder charges/types, and then need to start again with another barrel.

 

[Stonewall]

"a factory 6PPC"

Rests- bags -windflags ?

A few more details would really help.



A Sako single shot 6 P.P.C. with good loads will do .25".

But Keith S was shooting that day and he is scarey good at this stuff - many years of pratice.


6 P.P.C. and 6 P.P.C. USA are not exactly the same thing using the same reloading dies.

Try:

Sako 6 P.P.C. USA brass

65 gr Berger
27 gr AA 2015
CCI br primer

Seat bullet to 2.2" as that throat is much longer on the 6 P.P.C. USA

Glenn

 

[ReedG]

The advice to work up your own loads is mandatory if you want to achieve whatever level of accuracy your Cooper is capable of. I have a new-to-me Cooper M21 in 6 PPC and it is one of the best shooting "factory" guns I have. It is, however, not capable of sustainable quarter-minute accuracy. I will put up a pretty little "1" once in a while but if it was capable of consistent 1/4" groups I could sell my benchrest rifle. Looking at my load work-up targets I would say it is always a 1/2" gun; a 3/8" gun about 50% of the time and only in the 1/4" area about 10% of the time. Your mileage may vary, but solid .25 MOA factory guns are pretty rare and a jewel to cherish if you find one.

There are several ways to do load work-up that work well. I have done all my testing with 68-gr. Bergers, using H322, 8208XBR, Benchmark and N133. I first seat everything "at" the lands and vary powder weights by .4-gr. in several three-shot groups. When the most concentric and smallest group is identified, I then use that load and vary seating depth from minus -.015 to +.010 in the lands. I test using wind flags and make every effort to assure it is the load being tested and not my shooting ability; good bench set-up, unhurried pace, etc. I enjoy the load work as much as the shooting.

 

[alinwa]

The three 80's vintage Sako PPC USA 'A1' or 'BR' models I've experience with have sustained 1/4moa aggs...... I've never seen another factory rifle equal this.

 

[Hunter]

Thanks for the advice; additional advice will be appreciated also.

Stonewall/Glenn and Reed -- I've got some 65 and 68 bergers that I plan to try; don't have any 2015 or Benchmark, but do have the other powders mentioned.

Reed, it sounds like we have basically the same gun. I've shot a few three-shot groups with some various other bullets, but haven't shot any five-shot groups other than as referenced in post 3 above. Did you do your load testing starting at the published minimums for each of those powders? Also, I don't fully understand the concept of seating "into" the lands. I would think that seating .01 into the lands would push the bullet back into the case such that it's no longer .01 into the lands, or that the bolt would be very hard to close. Can you add some clarity to my thinking?

 

[zimmden]

+1 to Alwina. I also have an older Sako in 6PPC that shoots well. Many groups in the .2's and .3's. I've won 4 small 100 events with 25 shot aggs in the .4's. I've found the slower loadings (2800 fps) seem to group better possibly due to the light weight barrel on the factory gun. AA 2015 and VV 133 with most premium 68 gr bullets work best.

 

[Charles E]

The title of this thread is a quote I saw on the 260/280 thread. I thought of sending the author of the quote a PM; however, I thought it would be nice to get more than one opinion -- thus, this thread.

"You'll just have to break out your 6ppc if you want to see sub .25 MOA accuracy"

My opinion, referring to the statement as it stands, is it is at best uninformed, middling stupid, and at worst, intentionally misleading. Was it uttered by a politician?

 

[Stonewall]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/book-dvd-reviews/tony-boyers-book-of-rifle-accuracy/
Tony Boyer's Book

I just noticed this in another thread.
I am sure that you will learn a lot from this book.

Glenn

 

[ray porter]

perhaps you do not know just how hard it is to sustain that magic quarter inch. elsewhere nearby are the results of the east-west match held last month where eighty folks took their best rifles to qualify for the world team. go check out just how many managed a quarter inch agg after 2 days. and these are guys with a sea of wind flags in front of them that are super good at reading conditions and tuning a rifle.

 

[Hal D.]

The answer to your question is no, a factory rifle should not be expected to shoot quarter minute groups consistently. It's not impossible, but probably less than 1 percent of factory rifles are capable of this. Most would be lucky to shoot 1 minute. Shooting the occasional quarter inch group is another matter.

 

[caroby]

perhaps you do not know just how hard it is to sustain that magic quarter inch. elsewhere nearby are the results of the east-west match held last month where eighty folks took their best rifles to qualify for the world team. go check out just how many managed a quarter inch agg after 2 days. and these are guys with a sea of wind flags in front of them that are super good at reading conditions and tuning a rifle.

Damn right Ray..!
Tiny Aggs are VERY Difficult to attain WITH the "BEST" of Benchrest rifles and techniques... The work involved is well........... A LOT.. Lemmings and all! I commend those in this sport that Achieve such Amazing results with such "regularity"... World Class fellers..!

A "factory" rifle even with a PPC chambering...... Well heck, a .2500 5 - 5 shot string (Agg) is just awesome in my book..!

cale

 

[Hunter]

perhaps you do not know just how hard it is to sustain that magic quarter inch.

Ray, my bad, my original question may have been ambigious; did I mean attain .25 MOA on a sustained basis or just once in a while, and did I mean that on any one five-shot target or for an aggregate of five targets? I'm not sure what I meant.

I guess it would be foolish to think a factory gun could consistently agg .25 MOA. As for "once in while" on any one target, I guess anything is possible. BTW, I looked back at all the five-shot groups shot by factory rifles (exclusive of those with after-market barrels and triggers) over the past two years in matches (100 and 200 yds) where I shoot (a total of 360 groups) and I saw seven groups less than .255 (three of which were in the same aggregate); so, I guess a .25 MOA, five-shot group is attainable in a factory gun -- once in a while. Maybe I shouldn't have asked the question.

 

[Wilbur]

I drove 3 hours to Bristol, TN to try to get my "red hot" benchrest rifle to shoot anything that even resembled a quarter inch. It was agging in the high 3rees. Didn't accomplish anything but met a young fellow there that was shooting a box stock Savage 22-250 into rather tight cloverleaf three shot groups - every time. Since then, I've been rather cautious in discussing factory rifles. I can say that I've never seen a Unicorn but I can't say that I've never seen a quarter inch factory rifle.

 

[Hunter]

[M]et a young fellow there that was shooting a box stock Savage 22-250 into rather tight cloverleaf three shot groups - every time.

I had one of those; however, tight cloverleaf five-shot groups were not the norm.