Word of warning

B

bdotson

Guest
I thought I would pass this on. I both pre load and load at the range. I had 50 loaded rounds to practice with. I had a misfire (snap) pulled the round out there was a good dent in the primer I took the round out and replaced it with another same thing. I took the firing pin out no problem? I had not resized the case so no headspace problem. I did have reloading tools with me. I pulled one knocked the primer out replaced it with a wlrs and it fired. That tray of primers shot one out of ten!!! I have a case of them (210m) I got to thinking about what this would be like if I went to a match and had a mis fire I would be done!! I spoke to my gun smith to day and he told me of another customer who had also had problems with them. I called federal today and talked to Gary ? and he told me they had never heard of this I explaned that my gunsmith new someone Gary promply told me my gun smith was lying because no one had ever had any problems like this before. Gary wanted me to leave the primers in the cases and send them to him. I told him these were processed lapua brass and I was nor going to send them to him. Gary then suggested that I send the rest of the primers to him at the factory and they would have a look at them. This was to be on my dime!! I gave 37 dollars for them and now it would cost me 35 to ship the back that puts me with 70 in them and I would stillnot have them. I am scared to use them as I think they would mess you up if I have mis fires. I say this so you can think about pre loading. Also I have bought my last federal primer customer service should be there no one priorty. Buddy:mad:
 
bdotson said:
I thought I would pass this on. I both pre load and load at the range. I had 50 loaded rounds to practice with. I had a misfire (snap) pulled the round out there was a good dent in the primer I took the round out and replaced it with another same thing. I took the firing pin out no problem? I had not resized the case so no headspace problem. I did have reloading tools with me. I pulled one knocked the primer out replaced it with a wlrs and it fired. That tray of primers shot one out of ten!!! I have a case of them (210m) I got to thinking about what this would be like if I went to a match and had a mis fire I would be done!! I spoke to my gun smith to day and he told me of another customer who had also had problems with them. I called federal today and talked to Gary ? and he told me they had never heard of this I explaned that my gunsmith new someone Gary promply told me my gun smith was lying because no one had ever had any problems like this before. Gary wanted me to leave the primers in the cases and send them to him. I told him these were processed lapua brass and I was nor going to send them to him. Gary then suggested that I send the rest of the primers to him at the factory and they would have a look at them. This was to be on my dime!! I gave 37 dollars for them and now it would cost me 35 to ship the back that puts me with 70 in them and I would stillnot have them. I am scared to use them as I think they would mess you up if I have mis fires. I say this so you can think about pre loading. Also I have bought my last federal primer customer service should be there no one priorty. Buddy:mad:
Click to expand...

OK, my primer story :)

Primers is funny things...

I can't lay claim to any special knowledge but I do experiment a lot. My first "dangerous" experience with ignition occurred 12-14yrs ago, with Federal primers. I had patterned a shottygun load using 800X and Win primers from a combination listed in a manual. I ran out of primers. So I loaded up a couple cases with Fed primers and walked out to the patterning board. It looked awesome, "equal." But the day we shot them was a different story. The temp dropped into the low 50's and the guy using he bucket of Federal primed loads got a squib, then he missed a bird on a "hesitation boom." And THEN, a little later he got a click and a BOOM just as the pump action 870 came open.... a BOOM right out the side of the gun!

I as furious, scared.

I called Federal.

their customer service was awesome :) and the tech gave me a short course on primer/powder compatibility. This combination was on their short list as "incompatible."

THIS IS NOT A DISS ON FEDERAL PRIMERS!!!!!!!

The tech told me about priming compounds and ignition characteristics of various powders. I learned that some primers have trouble igniting some powders, these combos are NOT in the load manuals. Since then I've run into several bad combinations.... the last one was a week ago. WSM case, H4350 powder and I tried Wolf primers. THE FIRST ROUND MISFIRED! And the third...... My lot of wolf primers will not ignite my lot of H4350 consistently. I switched back to Win blue box and k'boom k'boom.

I no longer assume ANYTHING about relative "heat" or "power" of primers.

One guy's experience

al
 
bdotson said:
I thought I would pass this on. I both pre load and load at the range. I had 50 loaded rounds to practice with. I had a misfire (snap) pulled the round out there was a good dent in the primer I took the round out and replaced it with another same thing. I took the firing pin out no problem? I had not resized the case so no headspace problem. I did have reloading tools with me. I pulled one knocked the primer out replaced it with a wlrs and it fired. That tray of primers shot one out of ten!!! I have a case of them (210m) I got to thinking about what this would be like if I went to a match and had a mis fire I would be done!! I spoke to my gun smith to day and he told me of another customer who had also had problems with them. I called federal today and talked to Gary ? and he told me they had never heard of this I explaned that my gunsmith new someone Gary promply told me my gun smith was lying because no one had ever had any problems like this before. Gary wanted me to leave the primers in the cases and send them to him. I told him these were processed lapua brass and I was nor going to send them to him. Gary then suggested that I send the rest of the primers to him at the factory and they would have a look at them. This was to be on my dime!! I gave 37 dollars for them and now it would cost me 35 to ship the back that puts me with 70 in them and I would stillnot have them. I am scared to use them as I think they would mess you up if I have mis fires. I say this so you can think about pre loading. Also I have bought my last federal primer customer service should be there no one priorty. Buddy:mad:
Click to expand...


So what happened with the misfired primers? Did they contain priming compound, have anvils, etc.?

Photos if you can take them so that we can see why the failures........Don
 
I know of a few Br shooters that had primer problems last summer. All the problems seem to center around a new run of Federal 205M. They look normal but don't go bang.

I also know that federal has been contacted about this.

Hovis
 
Last year. At my first BR Group Tournament. Sunday morning.
First, I forgot primers. :eek:
Then I forgot the powder. :eek::eek:
But, I had extra rounds in stand by. And finished my group. :)

I now make a conscious effort, to not talk, to people. They think, I am rude. But, It's a safety issue.
 
bdotson

Would it have made a difference if you put those (bad) primers in at a match instead of preloaded. Pre loading has what to do with bad primers. Federal should (at least) send you a pre pay slip for shipping, Not good buisness (bad C/S)on their part. I understand if you preload and don't bring extra ammo to the match/range, but if you load at the match/range and you have just that lot/batch of primers would you trust to still load them? Guess you could always borrow some tho.
 
Roger T said:
Would it have made a difference if you put those (bad) primers in at a match instead of preloaded. Pre loading has what to do with bad primers. Federal should (at least) send you a pre pay slip for shipping, Not good buisness (bad C/S)on their part. I understand if you preload and don't bring extra ammo to the match/range, but if you load at the match/range and you have just that lot/batch of primers would you trust to still load them? Guess you could always borrow some tho.
Click to expand...

Agreed but when I pre load I dont bring reloading equipment with me so if the primers are bad I am done. If I reload I will have some more primers with me and could at least try something diffrent. But I would be done at a match after the first snap I just dont think I could regain my composier. I was very disapointed with fed customer service and to call my gun smith a liar they dont even know who he is!!!!!!!
 
Last summer a friend in VT had quite a few dud fed 205 primers. He had just purchased them. I don't remember whether they were the match or reg. This was about mid-summer although we didn't have much clear weather this past summer. At our last match in Maine, which was in the first week of October, I struggled with 3 dud WSR primers. They are in the seventh box out of a brick of 1000. Until then, no misfires. All other parameters were essentially the same, powder, gun, bullet,etc. The first two duds caused no harm as the case and bullet extracted fine, but the 3rd was the kiss of death...bullet stayed and powder dumped. I have been shooting since 2002 and this was the 1st time that I had ever had any misfires. By the time I got everything cleared, I had 20 secs. to get off my last 3 shots at 200 yds in a condition different than what I was shooting. It cost me big time, but what are you going to do? Throw primers away that may be good? Randy J.
 
I now make a conscious effort, to not talk, to people. They think, I am rude. But, It's a safety issue.[/QUOTE]

Zippy,
I really like that ! I think I'll have a sign made up for my reloading box; "I'm not trying to be rude,I'm trying to be safe,so leave me the f--- alone".
Ahhhh,peace at last.
Joel
 
Hey, Joel.
That would make a great sign.

I also learned to turn down the volume on my ear muffs.
Sometimes information is too much noise.....

Randy. I learned something about bullets and being stuck. :confused:
If the bolt goes up. But, not back. Stop. Get a cleaning rod and put it through the muzzle. Very carefully. When it stops. Tap the handle. The bolt will pop open. And bullet stays in brass.
I also took an old brush and cut off the bristles. For a flat end to put on the cleaning rod. Flat end of brass or aluminum.
And some old guy said to put a little bit of cleaning solution on the rod, to help lube it into the bore. That was a big difference. Wow.
Shoot a sighter. IF all good keep going.
Some ranges make you stop. But, you be should able to finish the group. After notifying the range officer.
 
alinwa said:
So, bdotson, did the primers fire or not? You don't indicate in your post.

al
Click to expand...

No they did not fire. also when I replaced the primers with diffrent brand wlrs there was no problem. This tells me there was no problem with the gun or anything else. The primers had a good dent in them from the firing pin there was no reason for them not to fire. I will try to get some pic posted of them asap I still have some of them.
 
I don't mean to be a buzz-kill here, but putting a cleaning rod down the barrel of a loaded gun (dud primer or no) is an extremely risky thing to do. Hang fires do happen, and it would be a matter of possibly losing your hand versus getting some powder in the action.
Maybe it is an accepted practice that I don't know about, but there isn't any amount of convincing that could occur when I am running a match to allow it to happen.
 
When you deprime I doubt you'll find that the mis-fired primers actually fired.
Is it hasty to rule out a bolt issue or presume a problem with primers now.

It's cold out. Did your action get colder and colder while shooting?
Did the misfires happen right off the bat, or after shooting some?
 
mikecr said:
When you deprime I doubt you'll find that the mis-fired primers actually fired.
Is it hasty to rule out a bolt issue or presume a problem with primers now.

It's cold out. Did your action get colder and colder while shooting?
Did the misfires happen right off the bat, or after shooting some?
Click to expand...

I dont think I understand "Is it hasty to rule out a bolt issue or presume a problem with primers now".
I de primed them right then at the range while sitting at the bench put another primer in poured the powder back in and it shot?? How could it be the bolt? nothing changed just wont shoot this lot of primer.
 
Well, sounded like replacement of 210s with WLRs that fired was validation that there isn't anything wrong with your bolt.
But how do you know there isn't anything wrong with your bolt?
What if the pin isn't pulling back the needed amount for some reason? What if it's a viscosity or clearance issue?
Maybe a trigger issue..

I'm just throwing different considerations in the air, just in case it's not a primer issue at all.
And, I had the same thing happen,, I cursed the primers,, it turned out my firing pin setscrew was failing to lock the pin in postion
(allowed slipping).
And, it's unlikely that 9 out of 10 primers are bad all the sudden, while it just happens to be cold as hell out.
 
mikecr said:
Well, sounded like replacement of 210s with WLRs that fired was validation that there isn't anything wrong with your bolt.
But how do you know there isn't anything wrong with your bolt?
What if the pin isn't pulling back the needed amount for some reason? What if it's a viscosity or clearance issue?
Maybe a trigger issue..

I'm just throwing different considerations in the air, just in case it's not a primer issue at all.
And, I had the same thing happen,, I cursed the primers,, it turned out my firing pin setscrew was failing to lock the pin in postion
(allowed slipping).
And, it's unlikely that 9 out of 10 primers are bad all the sudden, while it just happens to be cold as hell out.
Click to expand...
all good points and thanks for the input. I have to be out of town this weekend when I get home I will try and get you a pic of some of the primers with the indention in them. It never hurts to have extra eyes. Thanks again for the input and insight. Buddy
 
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