Wind observation today

Vern

Vern

Morethan1waytoskinacat
I was standing on the back porch a moment ago was thinking about the wind.
The back door was just barely pushed to but not closed.
The wind was not even 1 mph
Suddenly it popped open about 2 inches.
I thought at first the A/C had just cut in but I was standing close to the outside unit then I thought maybe the dog opened it but no again......then about 10 seconds later a light breeze began to blow.

So based on this observation is it possible that even though the flags and tails dont show the change that there is an actual pressure wave ahead of the wind that cant be seen that could cause missed shots or ones to jump out of the group?
 
vern...ABSOLUTELY!!! ALOT of the time,the change has ocurred before the flags show it. You have to be VERY careful in a calm condition. Calms are a sign of an impending change. That's why sometimes at matches shooters will cease fire when the tails drop. Good observation.
Good luck...good shooting...gpoldblue
 
Just for the record

I was thinking that a pressure wave caused the door to open not anything paranormal. But then maybe......:rolleyes::confused: that is the cause for fliers ....:eek: yea yea that must be why I have those,,, sure thats it ...;) surely it couldnt be my fault :D:p
Anyway glad to know others have seen the same things.

I have noticed watching the flags in front of me that sometimes I can feel wind on my face before the flags react.... sometimes I can see the flags react before I can feel the wind.

Just trying to figure it all out because if you cant read the conditions you cant win.
 
Great observations, Vern. Winds result when pressure differentials try to equalize, and because atmospheric pressure is in constant chaos, winds can vary rather dramatically over a surprisingly small area. As an air mass increases in temperature and pressure, it affects adjacent air masses so that, even without a detectable wind, objects like doors (and bullets) will move for no apparent reason (without scientific instruments to measure the changes). When we see wind flags disagree on the range, we're seeing how the air pressure varies within the affected area and even though we don't detect a "wind" in our immediate area, the pressure differential is affecting our projectile.
I think the best way to demonstrate this is to close the house up tightly, open one door (interior or exterior) and turn on the central heat/ac fan. Stand near the door and, at some point, it will close (slam shut in all probability) and you won't feel the wind unless your standing directly in the path of the slamming door.
 
Vern
I'm getting ready to go to Visalia next weekend for a UNL5/ HV Shoot. I have been flying flags for the last month to get the flag idea in my head. I will sightin/practice a little on our 100-300 Range north of Fontana Speedway tommorrow. Forecast for Visalia next weekend is for hot. But I have shot there since 94 and have seen hot go to gale wind storm. I am flying right now my gale wind storm wind flag. The flag is what I call a big fat arrow with a black polyester tail about 20" long 2" wide. The counter weight in the front is probably 1.2 lb. The flag is sitting on top of a light stand I bought from Sinclaair 15 years go. Perfectly balanced flag that weighs 1.46 lb.

If the gale winds start I will probably win and Nielson will cry again. Dennis Thornbury will tell everybody they should have been prepared.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Some time back, I had a wind paddle (cross wind component indicator with arched scale) out at about 35 yards, with a standard wind flag close by. In an instant the indicator maxed out and then returned to its original position, The flag did not show anything had happened. This was the only time that I saw this happen, but it did.
 
Pig in - Pig out

If you have a pen plumb full of pigs...another won't fit unless one leaves - Vern's pressure wave if you will.

My back door is 2880 square inches. Given a pressure difference of .25 psi (pounds per square inch) the door would have 720 pounds force on it...fairly significant and certainly enough to cause the door to slam shut. Larger doors have actually killed folks that were tenacious enough to force the latch open. Something to think about when considering exhaust fans without a complimentary supply fan.

Boyd mentioned that freaky occurrence of paddle vs. flag and I've seen that too. Some will recall my years ago story of trying to cut ping pong balls in half and the difficulty involved until I figured out how to do it. I was using half balls to make the typical wind spinner that is seen on weather instruments. Within that totally useless effort, I made a set of spinners with different numbers of "cups" and mounted them on a stand about 6 inches apart - vertically - to see which one worked best. As I recall, there were five spinners from 3 cups to 7 cups. I was never able to determine anything because the wind differed largely over that span of some 30 inches. The 7 cup spinner would go faster (of course)...but it would stop completely while another spinner would continue to spin. Go figure!

As a sidebar, we have all experienced difficulty with a phone call to/from a cultural difference. I'll leave it to the imagenation concerning a Hillbilly talking to Chinese folks about buying half ping pong balls. The "english" speaking (loosely) fellow put me on speakerphone and was translating to the others. They seemed to have found humor in my request as there was BOISTEROUS Chinese laughter in the background.
 
Wind voodoo....

In addition to pressure waves preceding noticeable flag changes, I've felt narrow wind channels at Raton that were strange. You could walk downrange and feel a definite breeze, walk 2 more steps and have it disappear, then back up the same two steps and feel it again. If you don't happen to have a wind flag in that exact area, you're missing something.

Now is that going to matter if the majority of the range is readable? I dunno, probably depends if you have a great bbl, are on top of the tune, and you're "cutting through conditions" with your setup.

But watching the flags all around and especially upwind seems like a good idea. I guess the mantra is "Watch globally, shoot locally". Or like someone once said, "They're ALL my wind flags"...
 
Two things:
1. If your tails move before the flag vane moves, sell them to someone and get better flags.
2. A friend and I fly RC helicopters bright and early in the morning before we open for business.....we have a Benchrest wind flag on the property, but quite frequently we see the hover altitude suddenly go up, look at the flag, and see it STARTING to show a change (40 yards away, and incoming). It's obvious to me that barometric pressure changes much quicker than a wind flag can indicate.

By the way, how many times have you seen the US Flag at the bank or whatever going one direction and another flag a block away going another direction and they stayed consistant? Spookkkyyyy!
 
Your vanes stay up with surveyor's tape, in super light condition changes.....really? I always find that the tape tell me before the vane will.
 
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Boyd
Direction of conditions is primary. Wind intensity is secondary. Bryan and myself see this issue the same way.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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