Which dies to use for short range BR in 6PPC?
- Thread starter 10ring
- Start date
If it's a new build, the 'smith that builds it will be able to tell you what dies work with his reamer.
If it's a used rifle, try to buy the dies and brass with it or get the info on what dies work with the gun. If that's not possible, at least have the seller include 3-4 pcs. of fired but unsized brass that was shot in the gun. You can send them to Harrel's and they can send you a die. If none of that is possible, the Harrell's '1.5' die seems to work in the majority of PPC BR-spec chambers I've worked with over the years. At the very least, it will be a good place to start and Harrel's will swap dies for you if you want/need a bit more or less sizing. My Harrel's '1.5' and my Redding full length bushing die (#77319) are twins for sizing.
For an inline die for use with an arbor press....and short of a die made from the chamber reamer....the standard Wilson non-micrometer 6PPC seating die is my choice. They have a 'standard' and an 'oversize' seating die available for the PPC's. The 'oversize' version works best with the chambers that have the 'PPC U.S.A.' dimensions. The 'oversize' has worked great in every PPC I've worked with so that's where I start. If you have the standard die an it's a bit snug to get cases out of, Wilson will lap them for you. You can do it yourself on the earlier Wilson seaters that were made from 12L14 'leaded' steel. The later stainless ones are best returned to Wilson for lapping, if needed.
For a threaded style seater, I'm clueless as to what works well. Not saying they don't (because they do)...I just have no experience with them.
For what it's worth from a guy that doesn't shoot the PPC's much.
Others can likely give more guidance. Good shootin'. -Al
P.S. Here's a good example of how to buy a used gun. I'm re-homing this killer-good, Jim Borden built 10.5 lb. 6PPC from the estate of a very good pal. I've made sure it's new owner gets all the brass, the custom seating die, the Harrel's full length bushing die (with bushing), the chamber 'stub' for seating depth, a couple of dummy rounds for bullet seating depth and 20 rounds of loaded ammo (with the load info) with the gun. The new owner is fortunate to have a very experienced Benchrest shooter as his mentor through the process. This 'package gun' will get him up and running quickly. My late pal will be happy to know it's out there shooting dots once more.
Harrel's FL. Just send them 3-4 cases once fired in your new barrel. Bushing depends on Case Neck Thickness.....
Tried others. Brass not happy. Went back to Harrell's. Brass is happy....
Die is +ten yrs old.
C.L. Peterson
Active member
I have gone through 4 dies: JLC, Redding small base, Micron, and Harrel's for my JGS 1045 reamer and have found that they all work to some degree though the micron and harrell's 3.5 seem to have the best fit for this particular chamber. All are well made.
The Harrell's 3.5 is what I would ask for if you have a JGS 1045. Sending the 3 cases has gotten a few very good shooters in my area to chasing their tails a bit, and then got the 3.5 and the problems went away.
Now, I am just a speck on the floor when it comes to what a lot of these guys have accomplished, but I have gone down the road and either the micron or the 3.5 Harrell's are the way to go...and there are guys who use the redding small base die and do great.
Your chamber/reamer and that die fit are the key and it may take some trial and error to get it right.
The Harrell's 3.5 is what I would ask for if you have a JGS 1045. Sending the 3 cases has gotten a few very good shooters in my area to chasing their tails a bit, and then got the 3.5 and the problems went away.
Now, I am just a speck on the floor when it comes to what a lot of these guys have accomplished, but I have gone down the road and either the micron or the 3.5 Harrell's are the way to go...and there are guys who use the redding small base die and do great.
Your chamber/reamer and that die fit are the key and it may take some trial and error to get it right.
Mike THANK YOU for this post!
REAL problems....REAL solutions and your last sentence says it all.....YOUR chamber will dictate YOUR die
And may I add please that regarding the "3 cases" that the cases must be fired multiple times to hammer them out until they're tight if Harrell's is to take useful measurements from them.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
I think you are spot on, Mike. Also, I've had best luck by going one size smaller than recommended with the Harrell's 3 fired case method. It works but I like just a tick more sizing to ward off click as the brass work hardens. Just my 2 cents and they are a good product..not saying otherwise at all.
Actually, my preferred method is to spec my reamer around existing die dimensions rather than the more common method of buying a die to work with your chambers. Both ways work just fine. On a PPC or BR based case, I like the chamber reamer to be about .003" larger than the die. After spring back, this typically yields brass that is about .0015 smaller at the shoulder/body junction and about .0005-.0006 smaller at the .200 line. Regardless of how you get there, I find those numbers to work well and for a good while, without click. Nothing wrong with either method. I just believe this method to be very logical vs buying custom dies for each chamber when it's really about the relationship between the chamber and the die that controls how much sizing happens. I hate hard bolt lift and/or click.When the rubber meets the road, I'd happily sacrifice a little brass life, if need be, for smooth operation, particularly when you need to run em. Either method puts you in control of how much the die sizes the brass. A few years ago, it was common for reamers to be spec'd around virgin brass dimensions. IMO, that caused a lot more problems than it cured but it was great for the custom die makers. Lol!
To each, their own and there's more than one way to skin this cat. Hopefully, this gets people to think about the why's and what for's with the die and chamber relationship.
A sizing die has a very simple and basic job to do. As long as it's sized proportionally correct relative to the chamber reamer, it'll work just fine. Custom is usually prettier than say, a Redding..but pretty is, as pretty does. If it yields proper sizing, it doesn't even have to look good. But if I'm shelling out custom bucks, I think most of us expect good custom machining, even if it doesn't actually work any better or worse, in most cases.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
A friend has
one of the LE Wilson Full Length bushing dies and let me try it today. He has a Redding, which isn't too bad, a Harrell 2.5 and the Wilson. He said he thought the Wilson was a bit more aggressive than the other two. I ran one case through his Redding then lowered the Wilson on to it and the Wilson was somewhat smaller. I then sizes another case with the Wilson and it was obviously compressed more that the Redding case. To that end, I just ordered one. I'm guessing it may be equivalent to a Small Base die. What I have wanted all along is an all in one die and this one looks like it may be the one. The die is presented very well, nicely polished and attractive lines. I'll
give it to the Nursing Home when I go in, in leu of payment. Under $100. at Midway y"all.
Pete
one of the LE Wilson Full Length bushing dies and let me try it today. He has a Redding, which isn't too bad, a Harrell 2.5 and the Wilson. He said he thought the Wilson was a bit more aggressive than the other two. I ran one case through his Redding then lowered the Wilson on to it and the Wilson was somewhat smaller. I then sizes another case with the Wilson and it was obviously compressed more that the Redding case. To that end, I just ordered one
. I'm guessing it may be equivalent to a Small Base die. What I have wanted all along is an all in one die and this one looks like it may be the one. The die is presented very well, nicely polished and attractive lines. I'llgive it to the Nursing Home when I go in, in leu of payment. Under $100. at Midway y"all.
Pete
C.L. Peterson
Active member
Adding to Al's assessment
And may I add please that regarding the "3 cases" that the cases must be fired multiple times to hammer them out until they're tight if Harrell's is to take useful measurements from them.[/QUOTE]
Also the 3 cases were "not" to be full body resized but only neck sized the 3 previous firings to get the correct measurement.
The 3 cases were cases that had been fired multiple times---do not use 3 new cases.
One wants a die that will resize cases that have and will be fired multiple times, properly.
New cases always resize easy/properly
Its the multiple fired cases that give one the most problems.
The most frequent problem i have noticed is "clicking" on extraction of fired round that tells me I'm not resizing properly.
Quoting old Chinese individual--"Sum Ting Wong"
CLP
And may I add please that regarding the "3 cases" that the cases must be fired multiple times to hammer them out until they're tight if Harrell's is to take useful measurements from them.[/QUOTE]
Also the 3 cases were "not" to be full body resized but only neck sized the 3 previous firings to get the correct measurement.
The 3 cases were cases that had been fired multiple times---do not use 3 new cases.
One wants a die that will resize cases that have and will be fired multiple times, properly.
New cases always resize easy/properly
Its the multiple fired cases that give one the most problems.
The most frequent problem i have noticed is "clicking" on extraction of fired round that tells me I'm not resizing properly.
Quoting old Chinese individual--"Sum Ting Wong"
CLP