When is old powder too old for accuracy?

V

VaniB

New member
Does anybody know if the age of a powder or primer can adversely effect accuracy?

If a 20-30 year old powder or primer looks good and smells good.....and there's no signs of decomposition, then I use it. It always seems to work perfectly normal at the firing range too.

My only question is if I shouldn't be using the stuff when I'm seeking those tight 1/4" groups. (???)

I can't be sure if when testing a new load and I get a mediocre 3/4" group....if it is due to normal occurring bullet/barrel/powder variances likes and dislikes of the rifle......or should I also need to suspect the age of the powder or primer?
 
Single base? Double base? Stick? Flake? Ball?

Double base no problem!

Ball powder no problem!

Any thing else use a chrony and find out.
 
many benchrest shooters still shoot "T", or imr8208 as the general number was. much of it was made in the late 1960s.

speaking of iron curtains,al, read iron curtain over america by beaty. amazon has it.
 
pwolfppc said:
many benchrest shooters still shoot "T", or imr8208 as the general number was. much of it was made in the late 1960s.

speaking of iron curtains,al, read iron curtain over america by beaty. amazon has it.
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I guess that answers my question. I like that answer better then Al's sports trivia answer.

I'm no different today then when I was a kid. I was always into nerdy Gilbert Chemistry sets, Cox Airplanes, Daisy BBGuns, and match-stick rockets. I didn't follow sports like the other kids, and I still can't tell you who was on "single-base" and who was on "double-base" .
 
VaniB said:
I guess that answers my question. I like that answer better then Al's sports trivia answer.

I'm no different today then when I was a kid. I was always into nerdy Gilbert Chemistry sets, Cox Airplanes, Daisy BBGuns, and match-stick rockets. I didn't follow sports like the other kids, and I still can't tell you who was on "single-base" and who was on "double-base" .
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Aah, The A. C. Gilbert Company. American Flyer trains, erector sets. I'm like you Van. I always thought Mickey Mantle was the mantle on the fireplace in Mickey Mouse's house. Why watch someone else "play" sports. Then worship them like some god.

I have some surplus 4831 we bought from Hodgdon in 1959. It still smells good and shoots like it always did.

Hercules Powder (now Alliant) had a sample of Unique made in the 1890's. They stored it underwater, loose. A few years ago they used to take samples out, dry it, then test it. The last article I saw was in the American Rifleman about 1980. At that time it tested about 90% of the original tests.

Bottom line, keep an eye on your powder storage. Try to keep the temperature constant, like in a basement. If it starts to look funny or smell different, pungy, etc., use it on your lawn for fertilizer. Mostly Nitrogen anyway.
 
Nostalgia

Wow, the A.C. Gilbert Co. brings back fond memories. How about Marx trains, Tonka Toys you could sit on, Think-A-Tron, Fanner 50 and a Davy Crockett coon skin cap? Life was sure one hell of a lot simpler then.

Lou Baccino
 
According to NORMA, one of the disadvantages of ball and flake powder is that they don't store well and should be checked from time to time.
 
VaniB said:
I guess that answers my question. I like that answer better then Al's sports trivia answer.

I'm no different today then when I was a kid. I was always into nerdy Gilbert Chemistry sets, Cox Airplanes, Daisy BBGuns, and match-stick rockets. I didn't follow sports like the other kids, and I still can't tell you who was on "single-base" and who was on "double-base" .
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It all comes down to your question, doesn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder

Single base powder has a shelf life.

Double base powder has no know shelf life, such as ball powder. A little research on the subject and the easy way to find out is some reading on the subject.

I lost two 50 pound kegs of 4831 when it kicked over in the 1990's. velocities of loads of 60 grains of this powder and a 180 grain .30 caliber bullet was choreographing at just over 1100 fps. It became lawn fertilizer. 4831 is a single base powder. You would think that the low price I paid for the powder of 60.00 a hundred weight would not have bothered me. Wrong, the replacement cost was close to 100.00 per 8 lbs per.

For long term storage of rifle and pistol powder, double base is the answer. Single base has got to be loaded and tested to know, for sure if the powder is still good. My kegs were in large paper containers from Hodgen's. They were stored in a cool dry place all the years I had them (bought in the early 1960's)

A small read on the subject was published by WOLF publishing under the title of "Powder Profiles". It is just a shot in the dark if you can find a copy of this? A good read.
 
Big Al said:
It all comes down to your question, doesn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder

Single base powder has a shelf life.

Double base powder has no know shelf life, such as ball powder. A little research on the subject and the easy way to find out is some reading on the subject.

.
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I don't think I'd use whoever is writing wikipedia's gun stuff as a source of information. They say the 300 Savage is the parent cartridge of the 308 Winchester. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/308_Winchester
 
I don't know about rifle powder, but I'm begining to think there is no expiration date for pistol powder.

My father-in-law gave me two 4 pound red tin cans of Hurcules bullsye gun powder that he used for NRA pistol comps back in the laste 50s and early 60s, as well as a couple hundred rounds of loaded ammo using the same powder. The ammo shot well and I've been using the powder ever since (I shoot rifle a lot more than pistol). He had the powder sitting in his non-air conditioned garage until he gave it to me. We looked at it, loaded some up, shot it with no problems.

Jeffvn
 
JeffVN said:
I don't know about rifle powder, but I'm begining to think there is no expiration date for pistol powder.

My father-in-law gave me two 4 pound red tin cans of Hurcules bullsye gun powder that he used for NRA pistol comps back in the laste 50s and early 60s, as well as a couple hundred rounds of loaded ammo using the same powder. The ammo shot well and I've been using the powder ever since (I shoot rifle a lot more than pistol). He had the powder sitting in his non-air conditioned garage until he gave it to me. We looked at it, loaded some up, shot it with no problems.

Jeffvn
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Hey Schopper, your Bullseye is made out of the same stuff as Unique some of which has lasted since the late 1800s. Think about surplus military ammo. Some of it loaded in the 1920s and stored god knows where. That GI US30M1 ball AP and tracer still shoots doesn't it.
 
jeffvn said:
i don't know about rifle powder, but i'm begining to think there is no expiration date for pistol powder.

My father-in-law gave me two 4 pound red tin cans of hurcules bullsye gun powder that he used for nra pistol comps back in the laste 50s and early 60s, as well as a couple hundred rounds of loaded ammo using the same powder. The ammo shot well and i've been using the powder ever since (i shoot rifle a lot more than pistol). He had the powder sitting in his non-air conditioned garage until he gave it to me. We looked at it, loaded some up, shot it with no problems.

Jeffvn
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pistol powders for the most part, are double base powders, just like shotgun powders.
 
Old powders..

Most of all the (Hodgon, Norma, Herters, and others) powders of the 1950s and 1960s were surplus military powders from WWI, WWII, and Korea. Many were imported from England, Europe, Canada, and Australia. Many of the modern powders today are imported from Isreal, Australia, Russia, and Sweeden, an Norway.

Rustystud
 
when is old powder too old

Herters?
I still have one of their catalogs. Remember their bullets? "Super wasp waist sonic missle tail". Honest...thats what it said.. Their goose calls worked so well you could pull a flock in and they would light right on your blacktop drive !
 
jmaisto said:
Herters?
Remember their bullets? "Super wasp waist sonic missle tail". Honest..... !
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I can believe it. It's still going on today with Remington and Winchester's recent ammo names;

W.S.S.U.M.WMD.

.....or whatever else they are now designating their cartridges.
 
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