When is a Neck Too Loose?

[Dick Grosbier]

The truth is, my problem is still reading wind flags.

This is a very smart recognition on your part.

As to varying neck tensions, when you are sizing the neck with a button you need the neck wall thicknesses to all be the same, or bullet tensions will differ, that is all there is to it. Either neck turn or use different buttons for different cases. Different buttons is not a great idea but I tend to do it with some cases I have that have looser necks but are otherwise good. But remember in general it is all about consistency, both in reloading, and shooting technique, and wind condition.

Dick

 

[bluechip]

I also recently had an issue of occasional loose bullets and 'overcorrected' by ordering another .001 smaller bushing. I think the actual problem is a case with improper heat treat that is stiffer and more resistant to the bushing sizer. You could re-heat treat the problem cases or just toss them like I did as they were somewhat rare.

 

[Slowshot]

I also recently had an issue of occasional loose bullets and 'overcorrected' by ordering another .001 smaller bushing. I think the actual problem is a case with improper heat treat that is stiffer and more resistant to the bushing sizer. You could re-heat treat the problem cases or just toss them like I did as they were somewhat rare.

I went out to the range on Wednesday with Russ as my adviser and shot entirely with the cases in question. Everything went just fine. I see no reason to change anything right now. It was a very windy day. My main task was learning to read wind flags. Russ said I was doing fine shooting .6" at 200 yards, all things considered. Now he has made several recommendations as to what I need to work on next. There are plenty of variables I need to get a grip on.

I am now convinced there is no problem with my brass that a bit of sorting and light neck turning will not solve. There is also no problem with my rifle, scope or rest set up. I am pretty sure that continuing practice of load development at the range and learning to read the flags will have me well prepared to compete this spring and summer. I will not win anything but I will also not embarrass myself either. I want to warn you though, if I have a really good time, I will be back next year with something in 6 PPC and a 3" forearm.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Glad youre having fun and doing good. Dont threaten us with coming back with a ppc- just do it! I think putting some wind flags in a line in your backyard and watching them for a while every day watching for patterns and timing changes will help you alot. Being able to recognize a condition that will hold long enough to get a group or a condition thatll come back twice in 7min is a good thing to be able to spot and being able to concentrate on flags only instead of shooting too will help learning. You know your gun is good to go so go learn flags now. You can put the shooting with it later. Start with 3 then go to 4 then later 5

 

[Slowshot]

I am only half joking. But keep in mind, there are realities to consider. I am a stiff old guy with fading eyesight. Also, lifting heavy things such as a rear bag, a rifle or a front rest has become a regular contributing factor to chronic pain. The cost of say, a BAT action rifle in 6PPC, with an appropriate stock, trigger and barrel alone, is a lot of money to me. Then there are the correct de-capping/neck sizing die, seating die, body die, shell holders, etc. I would need to buy. With those financial and physical costs in mind, I will need to be having a great time competing to seriously consider that expense.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Youre not hurting with what you got. Just run it til you can upgrade and have fun. Do what you can and enjoy life.

 

[JerrySharrett]

I went out to the range on Wednesday with Russ as my adviser and shot entirely with the cases in question. Everything went just fine. I see no reason to change anything right now. It was a very windy day.

I want to warn you though, if I have a really good time, I will be back next year with something in 6 PPC and a 3" forearm.

Are you trying to shoot really good groups with a stock that has a round for end? Wally Hart offers a bolt-on called an "accuracy asset". You may want to get one in the meantime.

.

 

[Wilbur]

Slowshot

Post a picture of your rifle and rests if you don't mind. We understand that you're gonna shoot it mostly as it is but we also want to help you do the best you can.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Hes posted pics before. I believe its a hunter class stock but it does have a flat forend. Mcmillan or kelbly blue marble

 

[Slowshot]

Equipment

Here is an old picture of the rifle:



The rifle is a BAT SB Left-Left action with a Krieger barrel, a Jewell trigger and a Kelbly HCFB stock. The Weaver T-36 scope in the picture has been replaced with a Weaver XR T-36. The huge recoil pad is gone. With the side focus of the XR T-36, I can adjust for parallax without assistance.

Russ Haydon put the rifle together for me with the understanding that I was not serious about competition but just wanted a very accurate Varmint rifle that I could shoot off a bench at the club or a portable bench in the field. This makes more sense if you understand I am a 68 year old disabled guy rather new to shooting, who cannot off-hand a rifle. My right hand and arm are no help in any part of the shooting process. I just need to keep them out of the way. It was with that understanding that we selected the specific components. Then, when I met a few competitors, I got sucked into trying my hand at competition. I could be cynical and assume they just need someone to hold down last place at the competitions up-coming this year but I am not that cynical.

I am still using the same rear bag in the picture, but I bought an SEB NEO last year for a front rest. The SEB is smooth, fast and stable, so I have no excuses there. I am now loading with an arbor press Russ Haydon modified for me, Wilson hand dies, an RCBS hand primer and an RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 scale and dispenser. With my rifle, BR setup and my home made loads, I have frequently made 100-yard, 5-shot groups that look like this:

and this:

You will notice those were in calm wind conditions and that they are at 100 yards. Now moving out to 200 yards, loading at the range and learning to read the flags in windy conditions has upped the level of difficulty several magnitudes. No problem. It gets me to drag my old bones out of the house and gives me something new to learn. As the old guy in the Monty Python movie once said, "I don't want to go on the cart." "I'm not dead yet."

Did I say, "no problem." I mean it. Sure I grumble. It doesn't mean anything. If I seem to ask a lot of questions, that is how I learned nearly everything I know. Ask and listen to the answers...what a concept. If sometimes I seem to be asking the same question again, it is because I am not sure I understood the answers I got the first time.

 

[Wilbur]

Looks pretty good to me! Learn to shoot quickly and wait on the wind to let up before you start. If the wind changes, shoot a sighter and do what it says do....or wait. If you have to wait, the first shot fired should be a sighter - unless it's your first shot. Shoot five of those low twos and see how you place!

The faster you can shoot, the better your aggregate will be. Sure, there will be times you shouldn't have shot fast but overall....shoot fast. Don't be afraid to hold a bullet hole or two when the wind picks up a bit. Finish the group!

 

[Slowshot]

Looks pretty good to me! Learn to shoot quickly and wait on the wind to let up before you start. If the wind changes, shoot a sighter and do what it says do....or wait. If you have to wait, the first shot fired should be a sighter - unless it's your first shot. Shoot five of those low twos and see how you place!

The faster you can shoot, the better your aggregate will be. Sure, there will be times you shouldn't have shot fast but overall....shoot fast. Don't be afraid to hold a bullet hole or two when the wind picks up a bit. Finish the group!

Thanks,

I have most of that internalized mentally enough to practice those habits and skills. My friend Mark said those exact words to me, while we were shooting at the club a couple of weeks ago. Loading and shooting entirely with one hand does slow me down a bit. I have watched the technique used by Mark and others as they practice rapid loading and shooting when ever the flags are showing what they want to see. It involves the use of both hands. I am still working on a system that will allow me to get off two or three shots in rapid succession. Russ recently pointed out one bad habit I need to break, which is looking through the scope at my last shot before loading for my next shot. Well that's a start.

Now, I will work on a not too awkward method for holding two cartridges in my left hand, while loading and shooting. Doing things like this is well within my experience as I am self taught in doing with one hand many operations normally done with two. Unlike someone who lost the use of a hand later in life and has to start all over, I have 68 years of learning how to do everything from tying my shoes to zipping a jacket with one hand. Occasionally on various shooting sites, I have reason to mention my 25 years of daily motorcycling. That should assure you I have the ability to figure these things out. Much of what I need to develop now is good loading and shooting habits and then muscle memory for those good loading and shooting habits.

I see reading the wind flags as one of those things that just requires experience. The theory is obvious. That is why I am trying to get to the range at least twice a week from now until April, when the first local competition begins.

 

[Wilbur]

How do you manage to aim the rifle while pulling the trigger?

This is more than a bit interesting and I think I understand the "problem" as it is. If your right hand doesn't work well, would a cable "trigger puller" do the trick? If you had such, you could aim the rifle and pull the trigger with one hand. Somebody, somewhere, can come up with a case feed assembly that will increase the speed of loading. There's a lot of extremely talented folks out there and all you need is one that's willing to help. I don't have money to throw around but I'll help all I can if you're willing to attend Benchrest matches and try to win...with that bloomin' 222.

 

[Slowshot]

How do you manage to aim the rifle while pulling the trigger?

This is more than a bit interesting and I think I understand the "problem" as it is. If your right hand doesn't work well, would a cable "trigger puller" do the trick? If you had such, you could aim the rifle and pull the trigger with one hand. Somebody, somewhere, can come up with a case feed assembly that will increase the speed of loading. There's a lot of extremely talented folks out there and all you need is one that's willing to help. I don't have money to throw around but I'll help all I can if you're willing to attend Benchrest matches and try to win...with that bloomin' 222.

You are over thinking this. I shoot entirely with left handed rifles. I am left eye dominant. I shoot entirely with the forearm supported by either a front rest, a bipod or a field pod.

Assuming you are right handed, just put your left hand into your jacket pocket. Then load and shoot your rifle. You will be doing right handed exactly what I do left handed. You will quickly understand why I need side focus. You will also see why I need a front rest operated with a handle like a SEB or a Shadetree rest.

Here is a picture of me, many years ago shooting an old Martini 12/15 I used to own, with the first serious rest I ever bought. The rest is a Shadtree top on a Hart base:



As you can see, I am shooting left handed, with my right hand resting on the bench out of the way.

 

[Wilbur]

I understand now that you don't use your right hand for anything. I think you're missing the part about how you can shoot faster with a custom setup. Split seconds count! Cable here, piece of foam there, etc...

Could also be the possiblity that I just need to hush!

 

[Slowshot]

Do Not Stop Making Suggestions!

No problem Wilbur. I consider every suggestion and try out most.

As I mentioned, there are several bad habits in my current BR technique, the elimination of which will speed up the process. I don't really want any more gear between me and the rifle than is needed. As I am told I will have seven minutes for five shots, starting next week I will be practicing with a timer. I hurt my back last week and had to take a week off this week. I assume I will find ways for transitioning between the trigger and loading ammunition, with my left hand that will gain me time. It is all a matter of figuring it out. I had to do the same when figuring out how to play the Dobro in 1969 and when I started riding motorcycles in 1986. I just figure it out what modifications in the normal equipment are need and what techniques I can use, within my physical limitations. Then I just continue doing the things that work. As Col. Jack O'Neal would say, "It's what I do."

Two examples are my use of side focus scopes and the long handled SEB Neo rest. Both of those are because I cannot look through the scope and at the same time reach around the stock with my trigger hand to adjust either the daisy wheel of most rests or the AO ring on the far end of most scopes. Again, put your left hand in your pocket and your face on the stock looking through your scope. Now, try reaching the AO ring or the daisy wheel with your trigger hand and you will see what I mean. I went through a lot of equipment before I finally figured my way around those issues. Though I cannot always completely level the playing field, I usually get pretty close. Again, if I keep asking questions it is because I am always looking to do better with what I have and can do. The next suggestion you make could be the one that makes all the difference.