What really matters in this game?

R

RayfromTX

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I started shooting short range benchrest last year. At first I did everything to my brass and weighed every charge. I had trouble getting back to the line on time and was nervous as a cat as a result. I let go of things, one at a time. I started just throwing my charges as carefully as I could, knowing they were not totally consistent. I quit brushing the necks out. I gave up inspecting the bullets. I never did weight sort any of the stuff past the first few weeks. Now I have less consistent ammo and more time to watch the flags between matches.

What is really important and what can we give up? Heck, before I got into this sport, I used to clean my brass. That makes me laugh now. How streamlined can we go before it shows up on the target.

I've got it down to this for myself:
1 Keep one eye on the flags between matches.
2 Keep a consistent bore condition by cleaning well and the same way between matches.
3 Pray you have a good scope.
4 Buy good barrels
5 Buy good bullets
6 Stay on top of the tune.
7 Don't shoot on the record with a case that feels different from the others when you seat the bullet.
8 Pay attention to your rest setups.
9 Clean your primer pockets. Is this the next step to get the axe.
10 Clean out your flash holes? I never have but some do.

So how much can we get rid of and still shoot a good consistent aggregate score?
 
The only thing that matters is:

DON'T SHOOT WHEN FLAG #1 IS POINTING AT YOU !!!!!

Now you know the secret to Riverbend.
 
Ray - a great question, with an easy answer - compromise NOTHING. I love a quote from C. W. Rowland, a very early pioneer of accuracy shooting, who in 1900 described benchrest shooting: "the most pains and attention to the minutest detail..."

IMHO being able to shoot the smallest aggregates possible in competition is a net accumulation of of many, many small things done well. By leaving nothing to chance we cover all the bases: equipment, loading, rests, reading conditions, mental preparation, planning for next season, the list goes on and on...

I suspect that, yes, you could not clean necks for a season and be fine. But where is the "tipping point"? What else can you cut out? If I were advising a new shooter I would question not what you can cut out of the process or system, but WHAT is there that I have overlooked? Maybe a nuance or very small item or practice that will make a difference over time.

I think I posted this elsewhere, but here goes: "the path to the summit of Mt. Zero Agg is likely steep, rocky and narrow."
Jeff
 
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Winning is a concept...

...Rather than a science.

You gotta have two things. A "born good" rifle and your head on straight. If it supports those two it's beneficial and if it doesn't it's a waste.
 
How long do you have between relays? I know it depends on the number of relays, but.
 
Little Bit............................................... ...

Of information Joe Krupa threw out at the benchrest school;

If your load is so sensitive that it has to be within .1 grain look for a new load.;)
 
Ray, it was great seeing you at Midland last weekend. You shot well and that 2 something you shot at 200 yds., was impressive expecially in those conditions.

You bring up a very good point, one that I have been working on for many years. I am constantly looking for ways to simplify, streamline and eliminate things that do nothing but waste time.

When I began shooting benchrest with the Midland Shooter's Club back in 1988, I was hard pressed to load and clean between relays and was always last back to the line. Cecil Tucker would get so frustrated with me at times he would say, "Well come on Grandpa."

Through the years, I learned there were many things I was doing that were unnecessary and did nothing but waste time. Among those things that have long since been eliminated from my routine are,

1. Brushing out case necks; however, I still clean primer pockets every time with my WhiteTail tool.

2. Wiping off each case after sizing and priming. After running them through the sizing die and repriming, the cases go right back into the block. I use Imperial sizing die wax very sparingly and find it is a waste of time to laboriously wipe each case every time. A little residual lube on the case doesn't hurt a darn thing.

3. Weighing charges. Yes, set the powder measure by weight, but throw charges directly into the cases with a technique you feel confident in. If you can throw charges that are within plus or minus .1 grains 85% of the time with the ocassional .2 grain excursion, that is more than adequate.

4. Tumbling/polishing cases? Forget it.

5. Cleaning after every match? No way ! I clean only after an agg, which usually means about every forty to fifty rounds. Many shooters are afraid they will "hurt" their barrel if they don't clean every seven to ten rounds. Nonsense, more barrels are "Hurt" by improper and excessive cleaning than anything else.

6. Weighing and sorting brass and bullets.

7. Coating bullets with super slickem.

Hope this helps. Some will disagree, but what the heck. We all have our reasons for doing or not doing things. Lots of things we do for no other reason than it makes us feel better, and that's what lifes's all about.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
If you shoot 8208 I would not go over 15-20 rounds between cleaning. I Iosso after 40-50 rounds.

With 133 and hot loads you might never have to clean! :D
 
Thoreau said: 'Simplify, simplify, simplify."

Which doesn't mean not paying attention to details...it just means finding out what's important in your program and what's not. Each persons setup will be different. Assuming a well tuned rig, it's ultimately between you and the flags.

Make it as simple as you can. But not simpler. :) -Al

P.S. Never put one on the record target in a condition that you haven't tried on the sighter. :eek: :eek:
 
Al, for some reason I haven't learned to do what your last statement said. I get caught with it is close enough. You know what? It ain't.
Butch
 
Ya know, this is all good advice, and one would do well exploring all of them. However, the one thing that is missing here is, HAVE FUN!

You can get so wrapped up in all of this, that the one reason you're at a match, gets lost on the way.

Do the best you can, but never loose the concept that you're there to have fun, talk with friends, and promise to do better the next time.

Everybody likes to win now and then, but nobody wins all the time.
 
Wayne

That's a great point. Often, we get caught up in the competitive nature of this game so much we forget to have some fun.
This past week end at Midland, I had my Daughter and my two Grand Daughters with me. I had a great time, just being with friends, and familly. Heck, my Grand Daughters got to know everybody, and the oldest, (Abi), just fell in love with Ronnie Cheek.
I have had shooters come up to me when I am not doing that well and act like my world is about to end. But if there is one thing written in Stone in Benchrest, it is, you are going to have to accept that getting beat is going to be a lot more prevelent than winning. If a shooter can't handle it, you really should find something else to do.
As for the things that really count, I pay particular attention to my barrel work, making each chamber as exact as I can. I also pay a lot of attention to turning necks, mainly just to insure they are all identicle. Aside from that, I do very little to the case as far as prep goes.
Of course, I know I have solved the scope problem. With my own frozen Leupolds and Jewell Mounts, I can honestly say I have not had a scope issue in going on four years.
I also believe in my tuners. I personally do not care what everybody else thinks of tuners, it would not bother me one bit if every other shooter I have to compete against decided that they were of no worth.
I also have spent a lot of time messing with dies untill I have ones that produce ammunition that is straight.
When it all is said and done, (after the Rifle and other components are mechanically sound), what it really comes down to is Barrels, Bullets, and Tuning. I believe that most of everything else involved in this game, from fancy rest to the much talked about 'gun handling', is just window dressing.
And one very important thing. Find a combination, learn it, and stick with it. I have been shooting just about the same combination for the past five years. I resist the temptation to discard a proven set-up just because something else comes along. That does not mean that I am not always on the lookout, but many times, new and improved things just turn out to be not much different than what you are currently using, and often not as good.
I have, over time, refined small aspects of the combination I shoot. The zero free bore in conjunction with the Bruno Boat Tail is a good example. Also, the practice that I adopted a couple of years back about setting my barrels back after every 350 rounds or so, (.025 at a time), is something I believe in. I really believe I can see the results in the overall aggs after going to those particular items........jackie
 
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Thank you for the replies.

Francis- Knowing what the flags have been doing between matches is key to feeling confident as you wait for your condition. I think skipping the coffee and danish and opting for protein is pretty important also. I use a Redding BR30 measure and it always throws +-.1 grain. I've never been truly convinced that I wasn't giving something up by not having my loads spot on but getting to the line late just cost me more than a little bit of velocity change so I just throw and go now.

Wilbur- You are a philosopher of a high caliber. I will copy that bit of wisdom and post it in my loading box. There is in your post, a freedom of interpretation and self determination akin to God's own word.

Gene- I wish we had found time to chat but alas I'll always be loading on the east end and you the west.

Wayne- I've never had more fun at a match than I did this weekend. I learned many new things and shot a few small ones and had some good conversations with some great folks.

Jackie- I had already decided to send the reamer I got from Lester to Dave Kiff to have the .060 freebore reduced to 0 or .010. I shoot Ronnie's OO 68 boat tails and I really think that the current seating depth of .100 is not nearly enough. My barrel has 1350 rounds through it and I think has eroded around .035. I will probably shoot the new barrels I have about 700 rounds and then set them back with the modified reamer.
 
Wilbur said:
...Rather than a science.

You gotta have two things. A "born good" rifle and your head on straight. If it supports those two it's beneficial and if it doesn't it's a waste.
Click to expand...

Wilbur,
You are good man, you cut to the chase better than anyone I know.

Joel
 
Ray

Ronnies bullet and Lesters, are, for all general purposes, the same.
If you have some throat errosion, and aregoing to the zero freebore, you willhave to set the barrel back quite a bit more than I do with my "freshen up" set-back. Probably about .090 at the least to insure everything is cleaned up, and the correct dimensions are established.
You will like the shorter freebore with that bullet........jackie
 
Jackie

I envy your "freshen up" setback every 300 rounds.
 
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