What Is The Reason For Drawing Benches?

L

Lynn

Registered User
I have been posting to a supermoderator off forum about the drawing of benches in shortrange benchrest.If you are rotating benches in the first place why are you also drawing benches?
I ask because we are at a stalemate as to wether or not there is any advantage to assigning yourself the same bench at each match.If there is no reason why have the rule?
Lynn
 
Drawing & bench rotation provides "equality" for most/all attendees in a match.
For match with many attendees, I think it's "a must".
In "random basis", a shooter does not have advantage over the others. There is no "favourite" bench etc. All have equal circumtance.
Some ranges have unique contour, different "barrier" & "swirl" & elevation (etc) between the left & right side. (for instance at Kelbly range).
The only drawback might be for dissabled shooters, as they have to move the equipments (rest, bag etc) for each relay.
Also that you need a lot of flags!
But "equality" is more important.
If you win a match with bench rotation, that's a true/fair win.

seb.
 
Some ranges have what are called honey holes. They usually have the most consistent or favorable conditions on the range.
Some ranges it really does not matter so much for condition as much as desirable setup location or maybe not having to rearrange everything when it changes from 100 to 200.
Those that shoot there know where the best spots are.
The range I shoot at does not draw benches for the club shoots, the good ole boys have their set benches.
Most of them don't say too much if someone comes in and accidentally takes one.
Some will almost go to blows over it. But that's club matches and sometimes those things happen.
Sometimes people come out the day before and sign up so they can get the bench they want. I did that one time in order to try a new bench.:eek:
I witnessed one that would almost go to blows over it assign himself a bench at a registered match though and that kind of irritated me but it is what it is.
 
Vern no draw no rego thats how it is.what Seb said is spot on.
 
"no draw no rego"
I am not understanding your statement here.
If you reread our posts Seb and I seem to be in agreement with the same basic stated reasons.
 
Lynn, we draw for bench assignments and relay numbers. At the end of the yardage, we rotate benches...usually by 7 bench numbers to the right. That way, everyone gets a fair shake and is exposed to different parts of the range.

A 'full rotation' (changing benches after each target) is only required for IBS National Championship events.

Changing benches after a yardage is required for smaller Championship events, ie: State Championships.

Here's a copy/paste from the IBS rulebook concerning this proceedure. The bold italics are mine:

H)
Drawing for benches
1)
The Host Club through its representative shall conduct a drawing for benches. One of the Referees or Statistician shall be present to see the drawing is fairly conducted and to represent shooters not present when called upon to draw.
2)
Latecomers must draw their benches by lot in presence of the Chairperson Referee or the Statistician.
3)
Clubs have the option of having but one drawing and requiring each competitor to shoot from the same bench for all matches at all ranges or they may allow two drawings - one for matches at the first distance and one for the matches at the second distance.
4)
Having drawn a bench or benches, a competitor will not be permitted to make any further changes in relays or benches, except when through some physical condition a hardship results, in which case the Range Officer may change the assignment of bench or relay or both in such a way as to relieve the hardship.
5)
At Championship Tournaments a system of bench rotation shall be used, whereby each competitor shall draw by lot his/her competitor or bench number for the first event of each day or at each range, and for each following events shall move a predetermined number of benches. He/she may be assigned the same competitor number for all subsequent events at the same Tournament.
6)
Since rotation of benches is required at IBS Championships and preregistration is also mandatory, the Host Club may draw benches for competitors and assign benches for physical hardships prior to the Tournament occurring. This speeds up registration at the Tournament and reduces complications.
7)
Bench rotation may be used at any IBS Registered Tournament when so elected by the Host Club.
8)
Host Clubs must definitely state in their program for each Tournament whether they will hold one or two drawings for benches, or if they will use the bench rotation system.
9)
A competitor may identify up to three other competitors to share bench rotation at the time of bench drawing. He or she must declare the other individuals prior to any of the individuals drawing for benches. Pre-registration is encouraged. The Host Club will accommodate the request up to available benches on currently open relays.
 
Seymour, by gawd, Texas doesn't rotate or draw for benches. Only thing to effect the wind is one strand of barb wire 15 feet to the left of bench #1. It must be the honey hole. We all fight for the last bench as it's closer to the loading building and the beer box.
Butch
 
Al Nyhus
Al the IBS seems to have a better handle on how things should be run.Out here they rotate benches but you can see the same two guys shooting side by side for years.
I mentioned this in a PM to a shooter and was told if you work hard for the range you shoot at you can assign your freinds any bench you want and that its sour grapes on your part for living 12 hours away and not helping out.I asked if the rules should apply to everyone and was told no.
Do the shoots you attend follow the rules you posted or are they just guidelines for the regular shooters or new shooters?
Lynn
 
St. Louis didn't draw for benches. As shooters came in, they could just put their rests on any open bench and set flags on Friday. This range is so flat, most would agree that there is no difference, and there are no "good benches". When I was running matches I would always be on bench # 31 for two reasons: 1., I am close to the Range Officers stand in case there was a problem, and 2., because I could set up on Thursday, as shooters were coming to town on Friday, wanted to "shoot the breeze", talk about this-and-that, etc.
The only benches the could possibly be considered "honey holes" were 1-4.
We would not use 1-10, and 51-60. Scott Pieper is running matches this year, so I will not be on #31 for sure!
Our first match is this weekend, see you all here.
Ron
 
Butch Lambert said:
Seymour, by gawd, Texas doesn't rotate or draw for benches. Only thing to effect the wind is one strand of barb wire 15 feet to the left of bench #1. It must be the honey hole. We all fight for the last bench as it's closer to the loading building and the beer box.
Butch
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Butch,
You got that exactly right ! Seymour is my #1 or #2 favorite range to shoot.
Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
OK, so you flatrangers...... are you all agreeing that there's no advantage to being on the downwind side of a sea of flags?

al
 
alinwa said:
OK, so you flatrangers...... are you all agreeing that there's no advantage to being on the downwind side of a sea of flags?

al
Click to expand...

Al,
It might be an advantage until the wind shifts, which is usually does in Seymour, But I don't think it really matters as the flags are going every whichaway most of the time. When it is blowing the same direction it all looks the same to me ! :)

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
As everyone knows - usually the same 10% of shooters win most all the matches. That means that 90% of us (yes, i'm in the 90% group) make up most of the voting population of the shooting organizations.

A little know fact is that many years ago, the 90% shooters voted to draw for benches and bench rotations so that we could have at least two more excuses as to why we are in the 90% and not the 10%.
 
At a fair number of the NBRSA Southeastern regional matches, you do draw for benches, but do not rotate. Rotating benches would be a plus in regards to fairness, but it is a minus in respect to having to move your equipment, esp. an unlimited. It is also a minus in finding people you're going to share flags with, and the attendant grouping for the draw.

In spite of the supposed neutrality of St. Louis, most ranges I've shot at do have "better" and "worse" bench positions. Given that, it seems only fair to draw for benches.

In the SE region, the flap (in the late 1990s) was relay assignment. Those who entered first were given relay one, with later register's given relay two, then relay three. If you're on relay one, there is some chance that for match 2, the conditions may still exhibit the morning calm (may not, too). Your odds of getting the early morning condition go down as your relay number goes up.

We solved that one by including relay number in the draw.
 
Lynn,
One thing I am not clear on.
Are you referring to registered/sanctioned matches or the regular club matches.

I may be wrong and I am sure someone will chime in if I am, buttt, I was under the impression that NBRSA & IBS sanctioned matches required drawing for benches, dont know about rotations.

Many clubs dont draw though some do. I know Denton did when I was there and Stiller was running the matches.

I do know that most times exceptions are made to sit either side by side or on the same bench as someone else for equipment reasons. IE both are using the same flags or rests on alternate rotations or in the event that there is no rotation side by side. Which I had to do most of last year because I had no wind flags. so I shot next to a friend of mine on club matches and on the same bench diff roation during a registered match.
 
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Lynn said:
Do the shoots you attend follow the rules you posted or are they just guidelines for the regular shooters or new shooters?
Lynn
Click to expand...

Lynn, I mainly shoot IBS sanctioned matches, but also NBRSA events at Van Dyne, Wi. and Kansas City when I can. I've also shot the NBRSA Hunter Nationals at Porcupine.

I've seen nothing but fairness in bench drawing/rotation at any of these events, regardless of whether they're IBS or NBRSA sanctioned. -Al
 
I agree with Scott, most of the great shooters you could put on the far ridge and they would still beat you. I do take issue with moving every 5 record shots, I think it is hard on the older folks ( which most of us are). I believe to be fair, rotating after a yardage is plenty. My opinion.
Great shooters will beat you from any bench! Any time.

Marty
 
A Dock Cart makes moving from bench to bench a whole lot easier. There is always help around, all one has to do is ask.
 
Rotating benches is a big PIA. There ain't no way I'm going to do that at my range. It's taking me to dam long to get the things square and level to begin with......

Hovis
 
HovisKM said:
Rotating benches is a big PIA. There ain't no way I'm going to do that at my range. It's taking me to dam long to get the things square and level to begin with......

Hovis
Click to expand...

Hovis,
I agree. We are having 2 registered VFS Shoots this year at our range and as the Match Director for them, I am thinking of making it a 10 point penalty per target if you change benches after the shooting has started ! :) :)

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
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