What is the advantage to seating bullets way out?

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bingo

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Seems like a lot of very knowledgeable shooters and smiths frequent this forum, What is really the advantage to seating bullets way out? If I use a heavy long bullet like the 142gr SMK in .264, it has to sit back in the case to be off the lands if I use the standard reamer. Is it advantageous to seat the bullet farther out? How much farther out could be or would be considered best, if I were to run in a throating reamer.
 
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bingo I don't believe there's any advantage in and of itself...........generally the practice started with factory rifles where you HAVE to seat way out to find the lands.

Custom reamers and chambers allow for other options. I generally design my reamers such that the bullet of choice seats deeply into the neck of the case.

Some people when shooting a small case like the 6BR and trying to give it more legs will design so the bullet sets 'way out because this gives more boiler room in the case.

al
 
Alinwa, that makes sense to me. I notice most of the competition shooters I see seem to favor running the bullets seated out quite far, and the guys who shoot repeaters have to use special mags to accomodate the extra overall length. So other than the fact that a bullet seated deeper in the case takes up some space, their is no uber technical necessity for it? It does make the cartridge look kind of cool. I have had excellent results with the bullet seated deep, but that seems to put me in the minority on the line.
 
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Alinwa, You got me pegged on that 40 deg shoulder. The barrel I just chambered, 40 deg shoulder. I thought it looked good and it might give me a few extra fps. I ordered the reamer without specifying the dimensions, simply asking for .260 Ackley improved, and got what I got. Still, in testing, it shoots very nice (for me) groups using 47.5gr of 4831 sc with a 142 SMK, on the formed brass.
 
Traditionally a chamber cut for an Ackley Improved uses a 40 degree shoulder. That was Ackley's 'thing'. It also requires a different go gauge and a tighter chamber than the standard cartridge does.

I much prefer chambers cut with short throats... as the barrel wears it allows you to chase the rifling and the accuracy for a longer time than a long cut throat will...
 
I am using the rifle mostly for recreational target work, and mid range varmint work.It is a Brux barrel with something like a long range F class length and profile, and a JP muzzle brake, sitting in an accuracy international chassis. The optic is a 5-25 uso tpal with moa/moa controls. I have ready access to a 1K plus range, and shoot on a regular basis. The accuracy international chassis and uso scope give it a tactical look, but the barrel is more F class long range. I know this is a benchrest forum, but that will be coming, and I have to start asking questions, so no disrespect to the forum. You got to go where the knowledge is. Of course one of the benefits of having the bullet seated in , is that they will fit in a standard magazine, however I single load almost always.
 
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Most guns shoot better with the bullets seated close to the rifling & you get a little more powder in the case. Max
 
Bingo,

One of the number one reasons why most target shooters long throat their rifles is to keep the bearing surface of the bullet away from the shoulder/neck junction. At this junction is where the dreaded dounut will form or eventually form. This is damaging to loaded cartriage runout, neck tension and neck cleareance in the chamber. There are also some other reasons but these are the main ones.

Hovis
 
It is generally better to have a loaded round where the bearing surface of the bullet does not extend beyond the beginning of the neck and into the shoulder as Hovis stated. There are several reasons why this is so but just take it for that. This is one reason why you generally have better luck with certain bullets in a given chamber. If you chamber a 260 Rem to shoot 100 grain HPs you will have to seat a 140 VLD halfway to the bottom of the case- or so it seems. For a dedicated rifle to be used with a specific bullet type, I generally like to chamber so that I have take maximum advantage of the magazine box and have the bullet close to or at the rifling. For a single shot, just chamber it so that the bullet doesn't jut into the shoulder area and don't worry about COL. The added bonus is a few more grains of powder as mentioned.
 
I've been shooting benchrest over 20 years, and 1,000 yard benchrest for 15. I'm amazed at all the wives tales that still trap me, and you've just run into another one. What, that seating the bullets into the lands is a wives tale? No. The wives tale is that you can follow some formula and be comfortable that you are doing the right thing.

Different barrels like different things, and it matters not a whit what you like. I remember when Berger was advocating jamming all VLDs, certainly not jumping them more than .002. So, 'ol Charles Bailey, an IBS 1K shooter of the year, found his rifle shot best when the 210 Berger VLD was jumped .020 -- ten times the recommended maximum. He did this the old fashioned way, he tested. Today, of course, Berger also recommends trying a big jump with VLDs, much bigger than .020 . . .

Several things to consider. If you can, always try seating bullets "long," that is, into the lands. You might get your best groups there. You may also find it a fussy point, in that .010 into the lands (based on your establishment of "into," the actual number means nothing) shoots lights out, but .002 either way is ho-hum. At the same time, you might find a broader window at another setting, farther in, or even .020, .040, or .100 off.

Now you have to choose. Just how consistent are your components? Your reloading? You will likely also find that neck tension will affect the results, as will powder choice. Change one, the others may change. May not, too.

Too much! you say. When tuning a rifle (barrel), you start by ruling things out. Three shot groups are good enough, and for ruling things out, 100 yards is far enough. Reasonably quickly -- 30 to 50 rounds -- you are down to a powder to work with, a bullet that shows promise, and a seating depth range that shows promise. Keep working, you'll have it within another 30 rounds.

You'd think that since I "know" this, I'd do it right. Sure. I'm on my 4th barrel with a certain chambering. The first three all liked Rel-22, Rel-25 or VVN-560. One like magnum primers, the rest standard. So on goes barrel No. 4. None of this shoots well. Another "score" barrel I figure. But somewhere in the murky region of what I use for a brain, I remember that many-times National Champion Danny Brooks shoots a chambering quite close to mine, and favored 4831. I try it. Four inch groups at 1K (that's good). Clouseau, I tell myself, you've done it again.

I see a lot of "explanations" in this thread on why something is "best." Go look at Stan Ware & Al Nyhus's Wolf Pup chambering. The whole neck is only .125 long. Several rifles shoot lights out. How does that fit with all the pet beliefs?

Two things. One is the theory is wrong because we all went from what had worked to formulate explanations of why it worked, and concluded something was best -- true, if you want -- on too little data. Obviously there is more work to do, or the Wolf Pup wouldn't shoot so well. The second is to think you can test one thing at a time and arrive at the optimum setup. Not unless the theory is as predictively good as, say, Einstein's Relativity theory. And it ain't. We still have things interact in unpredictable ways, primers, powder choice, neck tension, etc.

Most important is to learn how to work up a load for a barrel, a testing technique. By all means try what's worked before first, but don't forget another 3 to 6 shots lets you try something else.

And don't pass on old wives tales if you can help it.

Good luck, and welcome to benchrest.
 
And don't pass on old wives tales if you can help it.
Good luck, and welcome to benchrest.

"Half of the advertising I run doesn’t work. The problem is I don’t know which half." - David Ogilvy

Ironically, I'm not even sure that quotation is attributed correctly.
 
Bingo:
Here is another hook for the seating of the bullet. I shoot the Palma game and have found that my rifle shoots the best and I dont have to chase the throate. I use .0005 to .001 neck tension and seat the bullet LONG by about .015 to .020 and let the expensive chamber/throate do the work for me FWIW
Clarence
 
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