If it is pure luck then it is funny that certain people have all the luck time after time.
Gary
Discussion I enjoy, even argument, but please don't twist my ideas to suit your own agenda.........
"too much about pure luck" is a far cry from "pure luck."
Poker and Scrabble are games which have a significant "luck" component..... Chess and Table Tennis do not. If you can't see the difference then so be it, but IMO luck is much more a part of 600-1000yd shooting than 100-200.
"More about.."
"Too much about..."
"Much more about..."
These modifiers precede my use of "luck" for a reason.
al
I
ifldned
Guest
I think you are all correct in part. There are intangibles in both short and long distance marksmanship. The difference is in 100-200 yard benchrest those intangibles are measured in hundredths and thousandths of a inch. In 1000 yards and beyond the intangibles are glaringly apparent. Louis Pasteur, famous chemist said,"luck favors the prepared". I think I would prefer to shoot at a distance where you don't need a electron microscope to tell who won a match. I just noticed, Jackie Schmits record breaking group is measured to a ten thousandths of a inch. It took some kind of microscope to get that.
ifldned
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I
ifldned
Guest
langenc,
You are probably a much more accomplished rifleman than myself. I'm acutually a pistol shooter that owns rifles. But if you own a 54 Anshutz or a custom 22lr benchrest rifle and can't shoot one hole groups all day long,with the right ammo, they should confiscate that rifle from you for defamation of the rifle makers standards and intentions. I can easily picture a Savage Mk 2 , or a CZ 252, or for that matter a moderately tuned 10/22 Ruger shooting one hole groups one after another at 50 yards , but I may be delusional. ifldned
You are probably a much more accomplished rifleman than myself. I'm acutually a pistol shooter that owns rifles. But if you own a 54 Anshutz or a custom 22lr benchrest rifle and can't shoot one hole groups all day long,with the right ammo, they should confiscate that rifle from you for defamation of the rifle makers standards and intentions. I can easily picture a Savage Mk 2 , or a CZ 252, or for that matter a moderately tuned 10/22 Ruger shooting one hole groups one after another at 50 yards , but I may be delusional. ifldned
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I consider a 'one hole group' to be one hole with 5 shots through it that is not much bigger than a single bullet hole. Anybody that thinks it is possible to do this with a 22lr on a consistent basis is deluding themselves.
In the 1st pic below there are no 'one hole groups'. In the 2nd pic there is a one hole group on bull 18.
In the 1st pic below there are no 'one hole groups'. In the 2nd pic there is a one hole group on bull 18.
brian roberts
New member
Ray, other than positioning.......................
12, 13, 14, and 19 look pretty good, too!!
One can also try Prarie Dogs at 500yds. With a .22RF, some use 10/22s that are modified, and have the reticles set by Leupold. One fellow told me, "..well, you still kill them, but since they don't hear the report, they don't start running around, so there's more shooting ability factored in with conditions, which ain't easy.......
12, 13, 14, and 19 look pretty good, too!!
One can also try Prarie Dogs at 500yds. With a .22RF, some use 10/22s that are modified, and have the reticles set by Leupold. One fellow told me, "..well, you still kill them, but since they don't hear the report, they don't start running around, so there's more shooting ability factored in with conditions, which ain't easy.......
HuskerP7M8
Member
Ray,
People reporting one-hole groups are a pet peeve for me also since the definition for the extremes could be construed as anything from 0.000” to 1.210”.
I prefer to think of a one-hole group as being round and in the 0.100” range.
Landy
People reporting one-hole groups are a pet peeve for me also since the definition for the extremes could be construed as anything from 0.000” to 1.210”.
I prefer to think of a one-hole group as being round and in the 0.100” range.
Landy
Ned- my response was perhaps ill taken..
I suggested if you want to shoot one shot groups get some USBR targets. Set em at 25 yards and shoot 25 one shot groups, centered on the bull-- ie 250 25x. When you get good at that move the target to 50 yards. Not too many shooters want to shoot one shoot groups. Many like to shoot five or more shot groups. I do to at times, more so w/ CF.
One the target Ray (post #30), is referring to, bull # 18 is a very small group. What it would measure I coulndt guess. Bulls #11 and #12 (look like one shot each?) are good shots but w/ USBR would most likely not be X's.
Over on USBR site there is a monthly score on small groups (cherry picks). See the rules and send some groups in for measurement. They do both 25 and 50 yard targets.
I suggested if you want to shoot one shot groups get some USBR targets. Set em at 25 yards and shoot 25 one shot groups, centered on the bull-- ie 250 25x. When you get good at that move the target to 50 yards. Not too many shooters want to shoot one shoot groups. Many like to shoot five or more shot groups. I do to at times, more so w/ CF.
One the target Ray (post #30), is referring to, bull # 18 is a very small group. What it would measure I coulndt guess. Bulls #11 and #12 (look like one shot each?) are good shots but w/ USBR would most likely not be X's.
Over on USBR site there is a monthly score on small groups (cherry picks). See the rules and send some groups in for measurement. They do both 25 and 50 yard targets.
I
ifldned
Guest
langenc,
No offense taken. Everybody has a different idea of what a one hole group should look like. I would think any 22lr rifle shooter that can get 5 shots to touch at 100 yards and over has a right to call that a one hole group. Ray, for 50 yards I pretty much agree with your definition of a one hole group, if you shot in the zeroes, you did good. But when I see a kid that has just shot 5 shots touching for the first time and is beaming at his accomplishment ,that is a one hole group by me also. Brian, I'm working my way up to 300 yard ground squirrel shots. I don't even dream of hitting one at 500 yards. What is the least amount of rounds that it has taken you to hit a prarie dog at 500 yards? ifldned
ifldned
No offense taken. Everybody has a different idea of what a one hole group should look like. I would think any 22lr rifle shooter that can get 5 shots to touch at 100 yards and over has a right to call that a one hole group. Ray, for 50 yards I pretty much agree with your definition of a one hole group, if you shot in the zeroes, you did good. But when I see a kid that has just shot 5 shots touching for the first time and is beaming at his accomplishment ,that is a one hole group by me also. Brian, I'm working my way up to 300 yard ground squirrel shots. I don't even dream of hitting one at 500 yards. What is the least amount of rounds that it has taken you to hit a prarie dog at 500 yards? ifldned
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Mike Bryant
Active member
Jackie, even if they grow, I doubt if it will grow enough to knock you out of the record. The range measurement is just too far under the old record for it not to hold up.
brian roberts
New member
Ned, that's a question I habn't even.....................
thought to ask. I was getting so much other info, i e how to choose the ammo, getting the reticle, how it was set up, etc., etc., And I don't even live near P-towns anymore. I shot them in Northern Colorado a couple times w/a .22-250, but that was the extent of my experiences.
Now that '250 would reach out there, and it was not an habitual thing to clock 'em, thats why I was astounded when this guy told me that he and his buddies shoot them at that range. I was using a 10X Leupold, and it wasn't real easy, considering my lack of experience on that small target..
thought to ask. I was getting so much other info, i e how to choose the ammo, getting the reticle, how it was set up, etc., etc., And I don't even live near P-towns anymore. I shot them in Northern Colorado a couple times w/a .22-250, but that was the extent of my experiences.
Now that '250 would reach out there, and it was not an habitual thing to clock 'em, thats why I was astounded when this guy told me that he and his buddies shoot them at that range. I was using a 10X Leupold, and it wasn't real easy, considering my lack of experience on that small target.
.Butch Lambert
Active member
It sounds like Ned could hit them at 200 yds. with his 22RF "All day long if he did his part".
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Guest
Butch,
Yeah, the rifles can do it. I quit shooting for a very long time but when I came back I tested my squirrel rifle with every type of ammo I could find. It grouped 5 shots at 50 yards between 1.1 inch to 1.8 inch with some Eley tenex round nose about 8 groups. I ordered some Eley black with eps bullet to test and took it right out to the 200 yard range. The rifle is a 54.18 Anshutz silhouette rifle with a 12-42x nightforce scope that I had just bought to try out. With the Eley eps I shot ten five shot groups using 4 wind flags at a average of 2.74 inch. The best group was 1.05 inch. I use Remington 38 grain hollow points for squirrels. It shoots at 50 yards .375 inch groups and at 200 yards it averages 4.25 inch groups with the best of 1.33 inch. I was shooting 1-5 mph shifting wind. In the field you can get a pretty good wind read using a rangefinder and scope the mirage at 50,100,150, yards with a big variable scope and side AO adjuster. I think 200 yards is a good challenging range. I miss alot but my thinking is" if I could hit it every time why shoot at it?" I shot at a 3/4 inch dot that day and said to myself I wasn't leaving the range until I hit it. It was getting late but I finally hit it on the 25th shot using the Remington 38 grain load at 200 yards. I would like to hear from other shooters about their 22lr 200 yards efforts. ifldned
Yeah, the rifles can do it. I quit shooting for a very long time but when I came back I tested my squirrel rifle with every type of ammo I could find. It grouped 5 shots at 50 yards between 1.1 inch to 1.8 inch with some Eley tenex round nose about 8 groups. I ordered some Eley black with eps bullet to test and took it right out to the 200 yard range. The rifle is a 54.18 Anshutz silhouette rifle with a 12-42x nightforce scope that I had just bought to try out. With the Eley eps I shot ten five shot groups using 4 wind flags at a average of 2.74 inch. The best group was 1.05 inch. I use Remington 38 grain hollow points for squirrels. It shoots at 50 yards .375 inch groups and at 200 yards it averages 4.25 inch groups with the best of 1.33 inch. I was shooting 1-5 mph shifting wind. In the field you can get a pretty good wind read using a rangefinder and scope the mirage at 50,100,150, yards with a big variable scope and side AO adjuster. I think 200 yards is a good challenging range. I miss alot but my thinking is" if I could hit it every time why shoot at it?" I shot at a 3/4 inch dot that day and said to myself I wasn't leaving the range until I hit it. It was getting late but I finally hit it on the 25th shot using the Remington 38 grain load at 200 yards. I would like to hear from other shooters about their 22lr 200 yards efforts. ifldned
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ifldned
Guest
Ray,
Sounds like you're shooting the regular 22lr silhouette standing targets for 22lr at twice the distance, except for the mini bonus targets. How big are they? I commend you and your club for organizing a shoot that is this challenging and fun. ifldned
Sounds like you're shooting the regular 22lr silhouette standing targets for 22lr at twice the distance, except for the mini bonus targets. How big are they? I commend you and your club for organizing a shoot that is this challenging and fun. ifldned
The minis are 1/5 scale and the others are 3/8 scale. The rams are actually quite big and heavy. I can tell you from experience that a 17HM2 will not knock them over unless you hit them on the head. We used to shoot 6 minis at the end of the ram line, 188 meters !!! It was common for all 6 minis to be hit at that range !