What are your thoughts?

[tylerw02]

Before you shoot at me get some independent information on how we really stack up to other countries in standard of living, healthcare, savings rates, infant mortality, crime, etc, etc. We are going down hill because we are afraid to change and look honestly and open mindedly at new ideas!

Says the man that throws all his support behind the MOST LIBERAL person to ever run for president (okay maybe second or third most....FDR and Wilson were pretty f'in socialist) rather than the most independent, isle crossing member of Congress. You, Mr D, have no business suggesting independent information to anybody.

 

[Chuck Bogardus]

We gotta think up new terms, guys.

I'm a liberal.

Washington and Jefferson were liberals.

And when you trot out "communist" or "socialist," you sound like a McCarthy reject from the fifties.

IMHO, what it boils down to is fiscal responsibility. You have the party of increasing welfare handouts on one side, and you have the party of "how the heck we gonna pay for that?" on the other...

 

[tylerw02]

We gotta think up new terms, guys.

I'm a liberal.

Washington and Jefferson were liberals.

And when you trot out "communist" or "socialist," you sound like a McCarthy reject from the fifties.

IMHO, what it boils down to is fiscal responsibility. You have the party of increasing welfare handouts on one side, and you have the party of "how the heck we gonna pay for that?" on the other...

If you've ever read any political history and applied it, you'll see that liberal today doesn't mean the same thing as it did when Washing and Jefferson were "liberals". By today's standards, they are LIBERTARIAN.

 

[chino69]

Using up everyone else's oil

I've had a thought in he back of my head for a couple of years now.Are the people in our government or industry forward thinking enough to run most of the world out of oil before we use our oil.
Rudy Manuel

I've had the same thoughts too. Dry up the rest of the world's supply first and then start tapping our reserves. Our land is easily defensible against outside attack, we have plenty of natural resources and grasslands for crops and livestock to feed our people. What do the Saudis have if they run out? It's hard to survive on sand and in the desert. Maybe that's part of the strategy.
Chino69

 

[Chuck Bogardus]

Actually, I think that part of what we are looking at is a strategy which is aimed at crippling US capitalism... Not just on energy, but on a lot of things...

If you look at a concept, and someone says "Hey, that's bad for business," whammo, you've got 47 different left organizations protesting in favor of it. China and other nations don't allow that crap - and I think that they encourage it here.

For that matter, do we even know that some of the folks posting, and claiming to be just concerned citizens, are actually in the United States?

 

[Big Al]

How anyone can go away from a visit to any of today's topics, and not see the hands of social engineering involved, in ever aspect of America today is beyond me?

This is what happened when we let the lawyers take over government.

Why didn't we see, that lawyers would be the ruination of America?

Social engineering has been the hall mark of the so called self appointed ruling class (lawyers) for over a century.

What would happen if Americans refused to ever vote for another lawyer candidate?

What if the first question asked by any American was are you an attorney? If the answer was yes, then the walk away would begin.

 

[Chuck Bogardus]

Problem is that we have the lawyers basically making the laws. Then interpreting them...

No checks and balances in that system.

 

[tylerw02]

I am happy you can afford it! Don't assume it will be gone just because you don't vote for McCain! I have Medicare plus AARP and I like it better than any plan I've seen, and I used to negotiate health care programs for 1500+ teachers. I studied them all and flew around the country looking at them. It's possible for everyone in this country to have Medicare for less money than what is spent now if we could get the myths out of the way created by the healthcare industry!

Quality or quantity? How is it going to be affordable without one group of people getting the shaft? I don't want to buy health insurance through the government or anybody. Who are you to say I must? Better yet, who are you to say I must buy somebody else health care insurance?

Supply and demand dictate how much, the quality, and the price of helath care to be offered. If everybody gets "free" health care, demand will increase. If so, quality must decrease or price must increase to provide enough. So which do we want?

If government sets price and does all the paying, we have increased demand....so either we'll have reduced quality, or a reduced supply.

Its simple simple economics. I know that doesn't usually get taught in Commie-for...I mean California. Its obvious by the way the state operates, but what can a guy do?

 

[Mr. D]

Tyler,

If I believed what you have just expressed I'd be against universal health care too! I just don't agree with your analysis for one, and another issue is a moral one. As to whom has the right to tell you that you have to contribute to the common good, that ship sailed along time ago. In this country it is a moral judgment that most believe in even if it is sometimes abused by the lazy and immoral among us.

Look into the actual experience of other countries. Much of what we hear is propaganda and myth. The actual facts do not make universal health care in many countries look so bad. France, Switzerland, Japan and many other countries are having good success. It does require a different mentality for doctors and insurance providers. Surprisingly many doctors are ready to make less and get back to serving people instead of spending much of their time fighting the system. There are countries that give a free medical education for those willing to stay in the country. Supply and demand then affects the costs. Fear and myth is our biggest enemy.

I just made an appointment on 6/16 with my family doctor. His first open date was in the middle of August. A bum in the park can go to an emergency room immediately and we have to pay for it! This system ain't perfect either.

 

[tylerw02]

Tyler,

If I believed what you have just expressed I'd be against universal health care too! I just don't agree with your analysis for one, and another issue is a moral one. As to whom has the right to tell you that you have to contribute to the common good, that ship sailed along time ago. In this country it is a moral judgment that most believe in even if it is sometimes abused by the lazy and immoral among us.

Look into the actual experience of other countries. Much of what we hear is propaganda and myth. The actual facts do not make universal health care in many countries look so bad. France, Switzerland, Japan and many other countries are having good success. It does require a different mentality for doctors and insurance providers. Surprisingly many doctors are ready to make less and get back to serving people instead of spending much of their time fighting the system. There are countries that give a free medical education for those willing to stay in the country. Supply and demand then affects the costs. Fear and myth is our biggest enemy.

I just made an appointment on 6/16 with my family doctor. His first open date was in the middle of August. A bum in the park can go to an emergency room immediately and we have to pay for it! This system ain't perfect either.

Mr D., look at the nice long lag times in countries with socialist health care. Look at the poor quality. I've personally talked to people from these countries and they absolutely hate their systems. Further, explain to me how this is going to work efficiently...I've given you simple economic analysis and you dismiss it. Why? Because you don't understand economics I suppose. I don't care about "belief', I'm working on simple and sound economic principles here. No matter how you try to cut it, supply/demand, price/quality are all related. Where does this huge faith in government come from for you?

Explain to me, why I should be forced to purchase something I do not want? How does that fit in with our Constitution? Further, why is it RIGHT?

The "bum on the street" has government health care. Tell me what is going to happen when everybody gets it all free? You seem upset the bum forces everybody to pay for it, do you think it will be anybody when everybody has that ability?

Trust me, you'll get nothing "free". There is no free lunch. You, as old as you are, should understand that.

 

[chino69]

Healthcare

I am happy you can afford it! Don't assume it will be gone just because you don't vote for McCain! I have Medicare plus AARP and I like it better than any plan I've seen, and I used to negotiate health care programs for 1500+ teachers. I studied them all and flew around the country looking at them. It's possible for everyone in this country to have Medicare for less money than what is spent now if we could get the myths out of the way created by the healthcare industry!

Mr. D.,
I'm several years away from retirement but I'm interested in what you just posted about how happy you are with your plan. Could you go into more detail?
Chino69

 

[vicvanb]

Really????

IMHO, what it boils down to is fiscal responsibility. You have the party of increasing welfare handouts on one side, and you have the party of "how the heck we gonna pay for that?" on the other...

The recent Republican Congress outspent the Democrats 10 to one. They converted a budget surplus to record deficits in about one year. Drove the national debt to historic highs. Got us into a $3 trillion war--with NO way to pay for it.

How can anyone claim Republicans are fiscally responsible??? It's a joke!

 

[RStiefel]

vicvanb

you're right about your statement, but you can be certain you'll be told it's the democrats that caused this. We put them in office. Remember that next time you vote.

 

[tome]

i dod'n't want to high jack this ..but once you're retired & if your house is paid..health care will be your single biggest expense....NEXT..if anybody thinks the current leadership ( both parties ) is going to lead us out of this mess..you're mistaken.. like every bubble..at some point it can't sustain itself..the price will come down..the stock market gets low enough..it becomes a better investment than oil futures.. the only problem..everybody gets hurt in the mean time.

 

[RStiefel]

Touche

tome!!!