Washington State Initiative 594 and questions to gun buyers and sellers everywhere.

[Bob Boldman]

In this post I am pointing out what is going on in my State at this time and have questions that hopefully some of you can answer relating to gun laws and transactions. Just in case PLEASE lets avoid controversy, there are many opinions.

I live in Washington state with up coming elections. There is Initiative 594 coming up this November for a vote relating to cutting loop holes on buying and selling guns. The State is already recording all gun sales and buyers from FFL dealers which came into effect about a year and half ago.

The Initiative 594, Should this law pass, Buying or selling a firearm at gun shows must be handled through a FFL licensee only. No out side sales.

Buying a gun or selling, the two individuals would have to go through a FFL dealer to handle the transaction including a back ground check on the buyer.

The Initiative wants to stop online gun orders shipped into the state without going through a FFL dealer. BTW Has anyone heard out of state dealers selling guns directly to the buyer without going through a FFL dealer?

A individual would not be able to borrow a rifle/or hand gun unless the user registers through a FFL dealer for the background check.

There is a exception in the Bill that a family member can gift their gun(s) to another family member without FFL requirement.

One other item, I am probably going to open a can of worms here but here it go's: FFL dealers in at least two counties are charging high fees for handling FFL transactions (in their thinking the gun was not purchased from them) where in many areas of the state FFL dealers charge $30 to $40.00 per transaction, and possibly these fees are too high. Yes they can charge whatever they want and you don't have to through them or even do business with them. Just for curiosity, what do FFL dealers generally charge to handle gun transfers in your area?

Of course the State receives 8 to 9.9% tax on each transaction.

YOUR THOUGHTS

 

[bob finger]

How do they plan to enforce a ban on private face to face sales? At gun shows you simply step outside into the parking lot. All firearms would need to be registered by serial number and who the owner is before any enforcement would be possible, no?

My FFL charges $50 to execute a transfer, up from $40 two years ago. For all the hassle they have to go through with BATF audits and BS I think it is reasonable. bob

 

[David S]

Us folks in the People Republic of Kalifornia already have to do private party transfers through FFLs. It's a royal pain. But, every FFL I have talked to says there law limits what they can charge for the transfer service and it is $30, the same as if you bought the gun from them.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Always something crazy coming from libtard controlled states. What it really is is conditioning you for the next law undoubtedly ending up with gun registration

 

[Rick4070]

Always something crazy coming from libtard controlled states. What it really is is conditioning you for the next law undoubtedly ending up with gun registration

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/09/...d=maing-grid7|aol20|dl1|sec3_lnk3&pLid=538429

In the article:

"In Rodger's case, there is no evidence his parents or anyone treating him knew he had weapons. That prompted Sen. Hannah-Beth Jackson, D-Santa Barbara, to introduce a related bill that would require law enforcement agencies to develop policies that encourage officers to search the state's database of gun purchases as part of routine welfare checks. That bill, SB505, also was signed by the governor."

 

[michaelnel]

Welcome to California, Bob. Most of the stuff you have coming up has been in place for a long time in California, and the liberal democrats are continually working on locking things down more than they already are.

If it were up to them, the only private citizens who could even touch firearms would be the politicians' bodyguards.

 

[adamsgt]

in colorado..they pushed this same bs by claiming they were "closing a loop hole"..it was not a loop hole..it was the law..private sales were just that..PRIVATE,and legal.....

they sold it to the public by saying they were FIXING a broken law...

pure bs just more anti gun tripe.....

do not allow it to pass if you can help it......

For a long time dealers were not allowed to sell at gun shows. They could only sell from their place of business. All sales at gun shows were between individuals. That fact gets conveniently lost or ignored in these debates.

 

[bob finger]

A good point. When did the BATF relax the "on premises only" restriction on FFL dealers? I don't think it has been all that long ago. bob

 

[Brian Adams]

The Initiative wants to stop online gun orders shipped into the state without going through a FFL dealer. BTW Has anyone heard out of state dealers selling guns directly to the buyer without going through a FFL dealer?

This has been illegal in the US since the "Gun Control Act of 1968" I believe. Before that you could order firearms direct to your door from a Sears Roebuck catalog. I can ship a gun to an immediate family member across state lines, but that's not a commercial transaction, nor is it considered transfer of ownership - it's a family heirloom.

Also, I believe gun show dealers already need to have a FFL. Private transfers between individuals who happen to meet at a gun show are what they are probably trying to stop. A seller can set up a card table to display his wares but still be a "private citizen" and that's a grey area "loophole" that rankles the Nanny State Police.

 

[Brian Adams]

in colorado..they pushed this same bs by claiming they were "closing a loop hole"..it was not a loop hole..it was the law..private sales were just that..PRIVATE,and legal.....

they sold it to the public by saying they were FIXING a broken law...

Probably going to cost once-popular Governor John Hickenlooper (D) his job next month.

 

[adamsgt]

This has been illegal in the US since the "Gun Control Act of 1968" I believe. Before that you could order firearms direct to your door from a Sears Roebuck catalog. I can ship a gun to an immediate family member across state lines, but that's not a commercial transaction, nor is it considered transfer of ownership - it's a family heirloom.

Also, I believe gun show dealers already need to have a FFL. Private transfers between individuals who happen to meet at a gun show are what they are probably trying to stop. A seller can set up a card table to display his wares but still be a "private citizen" and that's a grey area "loophole" that rankles the Nanny State Police.

A dealer is a dealer is a dealer. A dealer has to have a business premises to anchor his business and FFL. There are no gun show only dealers. There are dealers with a premises who can sell at gun shows There are people at gun shows who sell like a dealer and that's where the rub is. A dealer is supposed to be in the "business" of selling guns. So, how many guns do you have to sell to be "in the business" That's ambiguous, and a point of great dispute. Years ago, large gun distributors saw the market at large gun shows and wanted in in the action. So they lobbied ATF to allow FFL dealers to sell at gun shows. There was a lot of maneuvering and back door dealing and consternation before this was finally allowed. So now dealers are the majority sellers at the guns shows and the world has done a 180 and turned Topsy turvy.

 

[Brian Adams]

A dealer is a dealer is a dealer.

And a non-dealer is a non-dealer is a private citizen.

A private citizen who does not have an FFL and does not own a gun dealership can set up a table right next to the FFl dealer at a gun show and sell a gun without an FFL and without conducting a background check on the buyer. Unless the Democrats have passed Universal Background Checks and closed the "gun show loophole" while I was sleeping last night.

 

[adamsgt]

there are mom and pop lic'd ffl dealers that operate from their homes and gun shows...very legal.

Yes, because their home is their business premises on their FFL

I had a FFL for over 30 years and finally let it go. Sigh of relief.

 

[adamsgt]

And a non-dealer is a non-dealer is a private citizen.

A private citizen who does not have an FFL and does not own a gun dealership can set up a table right next to the FFl dealer at a gun show and sell a gun without an FFL and without conducting a background check on the buyer. Unless the Democrats have passed Universal Background Checks and closed the "gun show loophole" while I was sleeping last night.

You are 100% correct.

 

[Brian Adams]

varies by state....no longer legal in co...must do a background check on all sales of modern guns...

I was referring to federal regulations - "Gun Control Act of 1968" and "National Instant Criminal Background Check System" (NICS). State and cities may create more restrictive regulations, but those are relatively easier to challenge and overturn in courts, and ultimately less insidious than federal regulations which have, shall we say, more inertia.