vv n133

H

hailey

Guest
New to this powder late last year never really got a load worked up.This winter had some extra time got a good load now but to get up to around 3300 FPS.had to load 29.0 grains of powder. will this load be safe in the summer,or will I need to reduce the charge.I hear guys at the range talking about loading this powder on up to 30gr.or higher is this safe my book states 28.2 max. My gun likes it around 3360fps in order to get this I need 29.0gr. is this to much; every thing look good no over preasure.Just asking cause I would like to keep all my fingers and eyeballs.
Gun is built on a new bat action 3 lug.
 
I am not a big time BR competitor, however they do call me "more powder Edwin".

You could shoot 29.0 grains anytime.
 
Just how much powder you can use depends on a number of things one of which is the style of bullet you use.

Barts Ultra's and Bruno OO's are a sleek pointy front with a shortish bearing surface. They seem to like a good hard jam in the lands (like 20 thou over just kissing the lands) and need more powder to get the speed and pressure up. A more blunt style bullet with a longer bearing surface will use less powder to get the same pressure, as a general rule.

With 66 grain bullets I have used up to 30.4 grain N133 in warm weather and up to 30.2 with 68's, these are Barts Ultra's. At these loads the pressure is high but there are no signs that it is excessive in any way.

If you want to try hotter loads, from the load you are at you want to progress slowly at say 0.2 grain steps and see how they shoot, it'll probably start to go vertical and then pull back in again.

My rifle shoots well at 28.6 - 28.8 and again at 29.8 - 30 grains with a 68 Ultra and about 0.2 grains higher with a 66 grain Ultra. The hotter loads definitely hold tune over a wider range of ambient conditions than the lighter load. The window that the load shoots well in terms of Density Altitude variation is about twice as wide as the lighter load.

This all assumes you are using New Lapua 220 Russian brass neck turned with the correct clearance, any change to this and all bets are off !!

Bryce
 
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Bryce

Were do you find the best accuracy in fps. from your rifle. Mine will shoot from around 3300-3380fps. much slower or much faster thay start to show vertical.You said yours shoot better the faster you push them.Have you tried other powders that dont change with the weather so much if so witch ones are they.I dont feel like this powder would be the best for the new shooter like (myself) is there powders that will give me close to the same accuracy that the vv.n133 will without tuning all the time when the weather changes. I'm all about preloading!!!
 
Hailey,

I haven't chronographed mine a lot but 29.8 grains N133 and a 68 Ultra is up near 3400fps. I don't really care how fast, so long as it shoots. You will likely find that if you are getting bad vertical you are around 0.4 - 0.6 grains hot or mild, either way will probably sort it out. If you keep going up from 29.0 grains you will first get vertical but it will come back in again as you keep going.

Mine shoots well at a lighter load, around where you are at, but the hotter load is more stable.

If your rifle is like mine the hotter load up nearer 30 grains will hold tune a lot better than the more mild one. Monitoring the density altitude is a big help in knowing when to make a load change to keep the tune. At the lower load mine will work over a 400 - 500 feet range in the DA, at the upper load the load will work over a range of at least 1000 feet.

I tried H322, Benchmark and BM1 (New Zealand) and in the brief tests I did none showed the potential that N133 did. I am told that they will not hold tune any better than the hot N133 loads so I didn't persevere and burn out more barrel looking for a load. Seems best to just learn N133's quirks.

Preloading might pose more issues for you than it solves !!

Bryce
 
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preloading

Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and buy the stuff to load at the bench,hate to spend the money but (everybody doing it)so maybe I'll just do it too.thanks for your help Bryce. Next week Ron Hoehn should love me at the ST.Louis match.....
 
In my experience of shooting 6ppc's from 10 degrees to over 105 degrees (gotta love the high deserts!) N133 shoots decent in cold weather but H322 absolutely loves it. Then when the temp gets around 80 degrees, H322 falls apart and N133 really starts to sing.

I don't believe there is a powder for any cartridge that will work perfectly all the time in 90+ degree temperature swings. But sometimes, if you get the right barrel, it will have a big load window and you can "fudge" it a bit with pre-loaded ammo.
 
I sure would hate to know I had a hundred or more vertical loads left and about 3 groups to go. I guess somebody has to bring up the rear:D
 
when things go sour, I still trust 27grs of 130; if it doesn't group, there is a different problem than the tune of powder charge..;
grtz
M
 
dusty

I thought it might be you bringing up the rear,you know sence you have that 3 lug bat.. HA HA HA just kidding.read the post on 3 lugs...
 
Haily

Ask five experienced Benchrest Shooters how they make 133 work, and you will probably get five different answers.
One thing you have to decide is just how serious you are about agging at a competitive level. There are not many short cuts, and learning the particular quirks of N133 can be one big hurdle to overcome.
I shoot in one load window, that being the upper load window. I have found that when you are willing to push 133, it has the widest load window at 70,000 psi+.
The main thing you have to pay attention to with 133 is the humidity. Now,before every body jumps down my throat, let me say what I mean by humidity. I am talking about what that little thing you buy at Radio Shack measures. The truth be known, I don't knowwhat it measures. Maybe it is sensing different DA readings that Gene Beggs is tuning with in his tunnel. But I do know this, when it gets down below 40 percent, you start getting into no mans land with 133. There is only one cure, that being,the upper portion of the upper load window.
I am not going to say how much I put in with my combination, which is a .237 4-groove Krieger Barrel, 68 grn Bruno 00 BoatTail jammed to where the marks appear twice as long as they are wide, zero freebore chamber, and 683-03 N133. I push the 00 Bruno about 3450 out of a 21 1/2 long barrel.
I shot the entire season last year and never changed my load more than .3 one way or the other. Usually, I only change when the humidity drops way down.
Of course,I also use a tuner, but I believe that in order for the tuner to work, the powder has to be operating at it's highest efficiency. If you do this long enough,you will learn that a competitive tune is more than just about barrel harmonics. How efficient the powder burns from shot to shot is probably just as, if not more, important.
But do keep in mind, every bullet-barrel-powder combo is different. I have stumbled onto a combination that aggs well on a pretty consistant bases,and I stick with it. You never mentioned what your combination is.
As for other powders, I will not bother with Hogdon untill they can make two cans burn the same. Say what you want about VV powders, they are remarkably consistant from lot to lot when shot by weight. (don't even get me started on "clicks").
As I said before. There are no short cuts. You have to find a combination that works, and be willing to trust it, and stick with it.........jackie
 
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combination

My combination is a 19.5 shilen w/.075freebore Knight 66gr.7ogive jamed were the rifling marks look as wide as they do long i'm guessing around .020 into.29.0gr.vvn133 (730-03)@3340fps.shoots ok in cold weather have no idea when the weather gets hot...
 
Haily

That 66 grn Knight is a relative straight shank bullet with an ogive similiar to the originol Watsons and Fowlers. My guess it is out of a Niemi Die, though I could be wrong. In my experience, that particular style of bullet does not like that hard in jam that many of us use with the Double Radius Bullets, such as the 00 Bruno and the Barts Ultra. But if it works, that is where the proof is.
Brady makes another intersting bullet. It is a true 9-ogive with a shank that is a full .243+ for quite a ways down from the pressure ring. They set out quite a ways, maybe a tad too much for your .075 freebore. But they will shoot when you find what they like.........jackie
 
Jackie

Should I maybe back them off alittle bit say .010 or do they like jump?
Cause now i'm in around .020 or so.
 
You have to experiment; no one can give you a recipe for your rifle. I shoot the Knight 9-ogives, and jam them so the marks are about 1/4 as long as wide. But even that is only a hint, you should try .010 off as well, & if that looks better, try .015 and .005 off. If you trust yourself, three shot groups tell you what is NOT working, so a three shot group with each seating dept Should show what is worth a further look. With each depth, separate groups with about .3 grains powder increase (or decrease, if you start hot), should cover everything that isn't going to work.

The only seating depth I try to avoid is "just touching," which always seems very fickle. Good one day, bad the next.

Good luck.
 
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