tuning and tempatures.

M

mr. nobody

Guest
i tried last night to tune my new rifle set up and when we started out it was about 50. as the temps dropped it just shot worse. i went today and started at temps around 60 and it tuned right in pretty good with the rva tuner. then when i went to adjusting the collar adjustment it really came in. i used 5 different speeds of eley to test and tune it.

as the day wore on and tepatures started to drop it got to shooting worse and worse again. i figured out last year that this was normal, but how low of a tempature is to low for this?

the barrel is a hart 6 groove barrel. it seemed to shoot lapua that i have a half case of better than any eley i've tried so far.
 
honestly guys. i could use some help here. i have gotmine shooting tiny groups using 5 different speeds, but the colder it gets the worse it does.

i know the lube jells up faster, but what else could be the problem?

i'm not alone on this. the winter is a hard time here in kentucky for us because we simply don't have indoor ranges we can shoot in. we can't get the weather to tune in like our brothers who live in the south.

what many need to know is what is the lowest tempature you would even try to tune in?

i take being poked fun of very well. you can poke me with sharp sticks, you can make fun of me and my girlfriend, but i'll cut your throat over my pitbull in a heart beat!!! i'd watch you bleed out like a hog over my dog.

there are other new guys like me who wants to know things. i just have the balls to ask, while others stand back and watch me ask.

please try to help us out. don't be afraid to try to help us out.

around here it will go from 60 to 30 in a few hours. we need help from guys who know things. i'm all for learning on my own. i'm well on my way, but a little help from good people would help us all out alot.
 
Unlikely that you will get a lengthy response from anyone, as this is the super secret mojo.

In addition to the lube viscosity changing, you also have a velocity change with every lot due to temperature. You might want to try a wide spread of velocities using the same tuner setting, and then see what appears to shoot the best. That might help you bracket a setting.

Also, what twist rate is your barrel?
 
y barrel is 1:16. i know alot of guys are afriad to help us out. we might show up andbeat them.

ask anybody who shoots with me. i give out ammo for others to try. be it eley or lapua. i try my best to help. if somebody beats me with info i gave them i'm happy for them. that is the difference from me and many others. i would rather help somebody do well than do well myself. i have given others ammo they have beat me with. i'm happy to have helped them.

i ordered a barrel for my rifle and it wouldn't fit mine. that barrel has been shootig from 2200-2450's on my friends rifle. i am not a bit mad. i'm happy for my friend. that is how friends are supposed to be. you shouldn't get mad. you should be happy for your friend becuase things worked out for him. i'm tickled to death for him. i know i will be have to shoot against him next year. i know he is doing damned well with am i mad at him? notin the least. i am happy for my friend. how would you call a friend a friend if he was doing great with something that you passed up. i'm tickled to death for my friend. i hold no grudges. i don't hate him. when he outshoots me i'll stand up behind him and say that is my friend. i'm happy for him, then i'll shake his hand, pat him on his back and say" job well job well done". i know somethings about my friend others don't. he damned well deserves to own a rimfire taht puts him ahead of the rest of the best.

the smith we use deserves a chance to see his rifles win. he is as good a guy as you could ask to meet. i myself think he doesn't charge enough. i would gladdly pay more to have him smith my rifles. he's a damned good man. i'm glad to be able to call him my friend. i asked him if he like rabbit. i was going to take him rabbits that i had killed for nothing. lord knows my freezer is full of pork, beef,chicken,tree rats, and rabbit. i'm going to have to buy a new freezer because mine is full. i purchased a beef with a friend of mine who doesn't havethe funds to pay for his part. i'm going to pay his half for him just to see he has beef to eat.

some of us here in kentucky try our best to take damned good care of the people who mean the most to us. my smith means alot to me. my friends mean even more. if your my smith and friend i'd wade through hell and fight a circle saw for you. i feel that strongly for who works on my rifles and my friends. jim if you are reading this i have nothing but great feelings for you. i'd love to see you win the a.r.a. indoor nationals with that barrel. you deserve it in my small mind. you are a MAN amung men and you are somebody i am honored to be able to call my friend.
 
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Mr. nobody,
I'l throw a few things out there. Maybe someone else will throw a few too.
I have to say I never shoot below 40 degrees with Eley ammo if I can help it at all. The tight bore barrels don't seem to do as well in lower temperatures, and the 1-17" twists dont either. Of course there are exceptions, so there's no hard and fast rules. Lapua or SK ammo seems to handle the cold better. I've never shot Eley Biathlon but I hear its better in cold temperatures.
I've been experimenting with a couple of new experimental barrels that are shooting very well at 80 degrees and in temps down to 40 degrees, same tune, and they're a slower twist that 1-17. So, there's exceptions.
Through the years I've noticed the 217/.222 bores seem to handle cold temps better than the .215/.220 bores with Eley ammo's lube.
Back when Federal was making top flite match ammo it seemed temperature resistant. I had a rifle that would shoot it well at 25 degrees and at 90 degrees equally well. The Federal had very little lube and leaded but shot like a house on ifre (as Slim Pickens used to say).

I guess what I'm saying is there is not a correct answer for your problem and that's probably why no one is chipping in to answer it. There aren't any deep dark secrets on how to get top fite performance out of rimfire ammo at 30 degrees. They all shoot worse when it gts that cold. Keeping the ammo in your pocket to keep it warm helps a little. Your ammo gets cold and so does your rifle. A tight bore gets tighter in the cold. Try a box of SK ammo in the cold temps. Your scores might not be as good as Eley in warm temps but maybe a bit better in the cold.
 
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thank you kent.

i'm a very small fish in a very large pond. i'm nobody and that is why i post under that name. i have a good friend who stands a chance at being somebody. he can shoot. i purchased a barrel for myself and me and my smith didn't know it would fit my action. he now has it. i have seen him with my own eyes shoot targets that i don't think he realizes would win natonals. i have helped score a.r.a. targets all summer and have a better ideal how they score than somebody who hasn't used a plug. he is shooting great targets. i mean truely great targets!!!

i simlpy can't consider myself a friend to him if i held back on judging his targets.if he doesn't come into contact with the dot on a a.r.a. target i tell him it is a 50. he is still scoring 2200-2450 on them!!!!!!! i'm going to order a plug just so i can judge his scores.

i don't begrudge him for it. he deserves every bit of it. he has learned the wind forthings i sent him and from what he has learned from the range. i simply stand backand look and say"there is my friend. watch him go."

i would like to se others chime in here and help us out. not for my credit. i deserve none. i'm a dick head. my friend is not and i'd love to see others help him out if they can.
 
Mr.Nobody,

I'm still quite a newbie too,but these are my experiences,

I keep my ammo warm on a cold day too.Keep it in an inner pocket as long as possible.

I don't know if it's relevant,but every 5°c warmer gives 1 click 1/6 moa higher shooting.That is in the 10° to 25°c range,it is never hotter or colder in our indoor range.So I can't speak about sub zero conditions.Is it the ammo or the rifle/scope combo that gives difference,I don't know.

Group size/results gives me no difference in warm or cold,but there are no extreme temps.

Rifle is an Annie 1913 and ammo is RWS R50.
 
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If Anybody knows, they won't tell Everybody because Somebody may tell Nobody!! Bob
 
That's lame.Helping someone out has a positive effect on the sport.
I'm always willing to share my knowledge,even if it's limited as in benchrest.
 
Pieter.45 said:
That's lame.Helping someone out has a positive effect on the sport.
I'm always willing to share my knowledge,even if it's limited as in benchrest.
Click to expand...

Smoke's comments were in jest. Fact is that no one really knows why for sure but warm weather tuning is not the same as cold weather tuning and no one has yet to shoot as well in the cold as they do in the warm.
 
Cold vs Ammo

Derek:
You just have to test each ammo until you find the one that works best for your conditions. I practiced for months before I went to Austrailia, and the ammo I took with me was the best here in the heat. When I shot down there, it would't shoot for crap in the colder temepatures. I switched to another brand, I took along for backup, and improved by 400points, and enough to win. My advantage over the others I shot with that day, was I had two different ammo's to select from according to the condition. I have found that ammo that is harder to chamber in the colder temperatures, will produce lower scores. You just have to test, there are no short cuts.
 
I can't speak from a whole lot of experience other than I struggle in the cold too, at least the few times I've shot in it, but here's what I can tell you that others have mentioned. I've observed some of the top shooters take actions to keep there ammo warm. Heating packs in their ammo box, and also keeping it in their trucks running with the heater on. I can say that the last time I shot when it was a little on the nippy side there were some top shooters there and the scores were lower than what one might expect with the wind conditions being very mild. So as one of the others already said overall folks don't seem to shoot as well in the cold. One more thing that I've read from a article from one of the long experienced shooters is when it gets cold speed it up, other words shoot faster ammo in the cold.

Les
 
i kow my lapua shot much better for me than my eley did yesterday. we started out in tempatures around 60 and the eley just didn't do well. my friend has some eley eps that was 1050f.p.s. and it just didn't shoot well at all in low tempatures, but when it was up in the 70s and 80s it shot very very well. i told him yesterday to stop shooting it and save it for when the tempatures pick back up.

i just got off the phone with hima and he is on his way to the range now. i told him to try to keep his ammo warm and to try some of his faster ammo. we spent the day at the range yesterday and he said his 1074 fps eley was shooting better for him yesterday, but it had alot of fliers in it. the lapua i was using shot better and was faster than my eley, but i would get alot of droppers in it. you could tell by the sound when it went off that it was a dropper.

i post a picture in a minute of the target i used to tune the rifle. i remoed the bloop tube from the rva tuner and it came right in. after i got it tuned i put the bloop tube back on it and it went crazy again. i figured it didn't like the bloop tube so i removed it and it went right back to tune again.
 
here is the target i used to tune on yesterday. i ended up with the 2 largest wieghts on it and no bloop tube. you can see the stringing up and down pretty plain. then you can see it start tightening up pretty plainly. target 13 was the best group using 5 speeds of ammo from 1050-1077. i was adjusting the adjustment collar when i got to that point. you could see in target 12 it was somewhat bigger and target 14 it got bigger so i went back the the setting on 13 and left it. target 16 was when i put the bloop tube back on it and tried all 5 speeds again. i shot target 20 with all 5 speeds twice to see for sure if it stayed tight.
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Mr. Nobody

How did you hang the target? Was it in the same plane as the picture?
Bob Collins
 
yes just like the picture. if you look at the entire target bulls 6-10 you will see the verticle almost gone in 6 then i added the next wieght in 7 and it came back. i removed the wieght in 8 almost gone again. i added it back and with just 3 shots at 9 saw it was back again. i removed the wieght and added one larger for 10 and tried it again with the wieght in 11. went back to what i had for 6 and 8 and made a adjustment on the collar for 12. made another adjustment for 13. made i adjustment for 14. made a djustment for 15 and returned back to 13's adjustment. in 16 i reinstalled the bloop tube!!! my rifle hates that bloop tube so i have removed it.
 
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mr nobody said,

you can see the stringing up and down pretty plain.

Not me! I just see a rifle's typical groups spread over maybe a .2 or .3 range. When you get a small group (or a large one) you decide it must be due to an adjustment you made, or maybe you decide it was the temperature, or you might decide it was ammo...rarely, it seems, do you decide the reason might be the shooter - or heaven forbid, just pure chance! I see no time when you consider low (or high) temperature might be affecting the shooter! I suggest you shoot a series of targets just like what you have done but without making any adjustments. I think you might find it looks just the same!

I've seen a zillion targets just like the ones you have pictured, with the group size or bullet placement pretty much the same - and there was no adjustments or temperature change! This is just the way rimfires act!


Now we will hear from the bench rest guys who will tell you their rifle doesn't act like that way. If the bullet lands 1/4" high, it's "verticle"...if it lands 1/4 to the right , it's "wind"...if it lands 1/4" low, it's "velocity". Never will they admit their gun is just shooting 1/2" groups!
 
pacecil,

look at target 3,4,5,7 and 10. if you don't see the stringing your blind!!! that was with different wieghts than what i had on it for bulls 8,12,13,14. the slight adjustments i made between 12and 13 made the groups tighten up and the one in 14 made the groups open back up. all these bulls where shot with one shot of 5 different speeds of ammo. i had been testing on friday and had a good ideal were to take off on saturday. i shot several targets friday night to get to my starting point on saturday. i pretty much had to do fine tuning saturday because i had went through all the wieght sets friday and discovered it liked the bloop tube in the ammo box not on the tuner. look at target number 16. that is just how it was but with the bloop tube placed back in the tuner. some of the stringing could very well be me(i was bundled up and warm), but not all of it. at times friday night it would shoot two groups instead of one large one when trying to tune. one was always higher than the other.

i believe now if i start testing ammo and find the magic lot i will have a great shooting rifle. i'm going to try some of the lapua x-act just to see what it can do.
 
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