Trying to understand more of the upper load window

[JohnVm]

If you would dump 15 grains of one powder in a case and 15 grains of another powder on top in the same case, you will have a 50- 50 mix, the only kink in it would be the measure variations of +/- .1 grain x 2 thus you end up with a variation of +/-.2. I guess the powder will not be mixed as in a cake mix but they would be in the case together layered
Now if you take one pound of one kind of powder and one pound of another kind of powder and stirred till your arm fell off you still cannot guarantee that the powder is equally blended to give you a 50 - 50 mix throughout a loading session. If you got to much faster powder in one load and to much slower powder in the next load you have just created a problem I prefer not to have.
Now to clarify what I am getting at, there are 2 ways of blending powders. I personally do not like the idea of either one as each has its unique problems concerning different powders and I am not convinced either one fixes the original problem.

 

[Nader]

So, I see that things are gettin a little off topic on this thread, So for the sake of the "newbies", the guys that want to learn something from these discussions,I would like to offer a little common sense approach to the " upper load window" conversation. First of all,133 is not the only powder available for the ppc.Yes 133 does have three different nodes(apx 3150,3250,3350) that it will shoot at but it is the only powder that I have shot in the ppc that has this crazy wave length that one needs to groove to.If I was limited to only Vit-133 I would have quit shooting a long time ago( yeah, I know, TB shoots 133 and he is the King pin, but Tony ain't talkin' and he's kickin everybody's butt all the time,so what is is he really shootin?,Stock actions,unmodified scopes,random lots of 133 from Wally and Lowell's floor sweepins) Get real !
8208 does not have an upper load window it has a very wide 3250 load window, H322 does not have an upper load window,it has a very stable 3250 load window, H4198 does not have an upper load window it also has a very stable 3250 load window, so why sell yourself "down the river" for every new batch of 133 that comes along.There have been terrific lots of 133, the 729-03 was to die for, the '04 and '05 were very honest and repeatable but the 07 needed a full fledged meteorologist behind the powder measure to stay with the tune.
With the 3250fps tune of the non-133 powders( apx 50 clicks of 322 or 52.5 cl of 8208,49 cl of 4198) one can adjust seating depth and get his rifle workin "right now" at 3250fps and it will stay workin throughout the day.
Once you have the confidence that your tune is right and your rifle is workin,you will be able to spend your 7 minutes in search of the right condition instead of spending 6 minutes looking for the right tune and shooting your group in what may very well not be the best minute of the relay.
Joel

 

[DanK]

Quote

He has watched disciples of low velocity nervously experiment with going up a few clicks. Then when their shots begin to scatter at higher pressures they refuse to to add more powder and begin backing off, whereas if they'd continued dropping more powder, they'ed undoubtedly have watched their groups begin to shrink.


Vic that is exactly what I have been doing. I was running 29.2 and was losing my tune, so I was affraid to go 29.5 because of fear of using the hammer. And I am a new shooter.

I always freek out when I hear my peers saying there running 30 plus and then later see them using the hammer.

 

[alinwa]

So, I see that things are gettin a little off topic on this thread, So for the sake of the "newbies", the guys that want to learn something from these discussions,I would like to offer a little common sense approach to the " upper load window" conversation. First of all,133 is not the only powder available for the ppc.Yes 133 does have three different nodes(apx 3150,3250,3350) that it will shoot at but it is the only powder that I have shot in the ppc that has this crazy wave length that one needs to groove to.If I was limited to only Vit-133 I would have quit shooting a long time ago( yeah, I know, TB shoots 133 and he is the King pin, but Tony ain't talkin' and he's kickin everybody's butt all the time,so what is is he really shootin?,Stock actions,unmodified scopes,random lots of 133 from Wally and Lowell's floor sweepins) Get real !
8208 does not have an upper load window it has a very wide 3250 load window, H322 does not have an upper load window,it has a very stable 3250 load window, H4198 does not have an upper load window it also has a very stable 3250 load window, so why sell yourself "down the river" for every new batch of 133 that comes along.There have been terrific lots of 133, the 729-03 was to die for, the '04 and '05 were very honest and repeatable but the 07 needed a full fledged meteorologist behind the powder measure to stay with the tune.
With the 3250fps tune of the non-133 powders( apx 50 clicks of 322 or 52.5 cl of 8208,49 cl of 4198) one can adjust seating depth and get his rifle workin "right now" at 3250fps and it will stay workin throughout the day.
Once you have the confidence that your tune is right and your rifle is workin,you will be able to spend your 7 minutes in search of the right condition instead of spending 6 minutes looking for the right tune and shooting your group in what may very well not be the best minute of the relay.
Joel

lotta' good info right thar' folks.......

thanks joel

al

 

[alinwa]

If you would dump 15 grains of one powder in a case and 15 grains of another powder on top in the same case, you will have a 50- 50 mix, the only kink in it would be the measure variations of +/- .1 grain x 2 thus you end up with a variation of +/-.2. I guess the powder will not be mixed as in a cake mix but they would be in the case together layered
Now if you take one pound of one kind of powder and one pound of another kind of powder and stirred till your arm fell off you still cannot guarantee that the powder is equally blended to give you a 50 - 50 mix throughout a loading session. If you got to much faster powder in one load and to much slower powder in the next load you have just created a problem I prefer not to have.
Now to clarify what I am getting at, there are 2 ways of blending powders. I personally do not like the idea of either one as each has its unique problems concerning different powders and I am not convinced either one fixes the original problem.

Well now that you put it that way..... it does hold together better

thanks

al