Truing action/action timing
- Thread starter Hal
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Dennis Sorensen
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I agree - if it needs it.
Truing should not cause it though. Truing only changes it by a few thou... a couple on the lug recesses, maybe a couple on the lugs... less than a thou on the bolt face.
What is an acceptable figure for you guys when you try a feeler gauge between the bolt cam and the camming surface of the receiver?
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tim in tx
Guest
dennis
i have fitted a few ,from what i have seen the handle should be as tight as possible to the front of the bolt to camming surface on the action,.002 in my case .but some welding on the face of the bolt handle may keep you from achieving this.the main problem in some sako extractors have a little too much clearance from the face of the bolt to the inside of the hook of the extractor, but 70% of the time this causes no problems but it can still certainly be an issue on a remmy.i am sure the sear alignment is not much of a problem with factory bolts but ones that are modified can see issues of all sorts for sure.i have done it on all of my remingtons and extraction was much improved afterwards but the welds were machined on the criticle surfaces to square up the corners to get the tight fit to the cam . tim in tx
i have fitted a few ,from what i have seen the handle should be as tight as possible to the front of the bolt to camming surface on the action,.002 in my case .but some welding on the face of the bolt handle may keep you from achieving this.the main problem in some sako extractors have a little too much clearance from the face of the bolt to the inside of the hook of the extractor, but 70% of the time this causes no problems but it can still certainly be an issue on a remmy.i am sure the sear alignment is not much of a problem with factory bolts but ones that are modified can see issues of all sorts for sure.i have done it on all of my remingtons and extraction was much improved afterwards but the welds were machined on the criticle surfaces to square up the corners to get the tight fit to the cam . tim in tx
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Hi Dennis. The thing about taking a few thou. off the bolt lugs and a few more thou. off the internal abuttments is that the primary extraction cam is angled. When the bolt is moved back by these machining steps, the cam angle on the root of the handle also moves back and engages the reciever angle further back. The camming now begins when the handle is higher 'up' on opening, we've decreased the amount of total mechanical cam (because we're not using the front part of the reciever cam angle), we've made the camming occur over a smaller area and a shorter time and we've increased wear on these surfaces because the load is now concentrated on a smaller area.
The problem with many Remingtons is that the handle is not located properly to begin with when it leaves Big Green....the cam angle is already out of whack before you do any machining at all. A trip through the Remington aisle at any gun shop can be an eye opening experience. A look at used Remingtons from 15-20 years ago generally shows much better attention to this area. You'll see some wear since most people never lube this interface..but the handle will usually be located correctly.
Assuming a well located handle and a good amount of cam angle 'fit', I agree that a light skim from the lug and abuttments is probably not going to be a big deal.
With a standard cam angle on the reciever and a bolt with the correct root angle, the bolt handles on the 700 family of actions usually end up with about .010 gap from the foward edge of the bolt notch in the reciever after the camming hase been maximized.
Other action makes might have .030 gap and be fine..depends on how they were designed.
As you know, there's much more to 'timing' an action than this single area...but this is a biggie. And one too often misunderstood and neglected.
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tim in tx
Guest
great points al
when opening a bolt it is nice to feel the bolt round the corner instead of hitting the corner so to speak . al said is that nobody ever lubes the cam area and as a result some of the more used actions may exibit rough opening and extraction,i had one of my actions that felt that way,the angles were not matching so there was very little contact surface from the begining,the cam was lumpy and not angled anymore and partly from wear and partly from design mainly right at the bottom inside corner and up a bit from there, after inspecting the cam on the action it had to be filed and smoothed out so it was flat from bottom to the top of the camming surface on the action,by doing so the face surfaces on the bolt handle were machined to bring the geometry back to match the metal taken off of the action and the angles were matched.the result is full cam contact and smooth opening for many years to come.i agree it should not be part of trueing an action,it is a lot of work and an aditional charge for such operations is definately understandable.the last benifit is by tig welding the handle there is much better of a chance the handle will not come off .that fact alone has ruined some long trips across the country or the world in both hunting and competitions. tim in tx
when opening a bolt it is nice to feel the bolt round the corner instead of hitting the corner so to speak . al said is that nobody ever lubes the cam area and as a result some of the more used actions may exibit rough opening and extraction,i had one of my actions that felt that way,the angles were not matching so there was very little contact surface from the begining,the cam was lumpy and not angled anymore and partly from wear and partly from design mainly right at the bottom inside corner and up a bit from there, after inspecting the cam on the action it had to be filed and smoothed out so it was flat from bottom to the top of the camming surface on the action,by doing so the face surfaces on the bolt handle were machined to bring the geometry back to match the metal taken off of the action and the angles were matched.the result is full cam contact and smooth opening for many years to come.i agree it should not be part of trueing an action,it is a lot of work and an aditional charge for such operations is definately understandable.the last benifit is by tig welding the handle there is much better of a chance the handle will not come off .that fact alone has ruined some long trips across the country or the world in both hunting and competitions. tim in tx
The rear receiver ring/bolt handle cut surface is not cut square on a Rem action.
60's vintage 700 bolt handles were hardened-hence the purple/blue color- so they usually don't burr at the extraction cam area.
The above mentioned purple/blue handles will also be turned/blended round at the wrist area just above the handle knob.
The drafted extraction cam angles were cut to much closer tolerances also.
60's vintage 700 bolt handles were hardened-hence the purple/blue color- so they usually don't burr at the extraction cam area.
The above mentioned purple/blue handles will also be turned/blended round at the wrist area just above the handle knob.
The drafted extraction cam angles were cut to much closer tolerances also.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It might be nice if
bolt handles were attached by screws with slots that would permit moving the handles fore and aft right and left a few thou. This way one could have excelent ( wanted to say Perfect) cam alignment. I realize there isn't much meat to work with on the bolt but meat could be designed in. This would also eliminate that rediculous soldered joint AND allow for a selection of bolt handles to suit the fancy of a shooter or the diciplin they wanted to use the rifle in.
bolt handles were attached by screws with slots that would permit moving the handles fore and aft right and left a few thou. This way one could have excelent ( wanted to say Perfect) cam alignment. I realize there isn't much meat to work with on the bolt but meat could be designed in. This would also eliminate that rediculous soldered joint AND allow for a selection of bolt handles to suit the fancy of a shooter or the diciplin they wanted to use the rifle in.