Tight Bolt Revisited

Chino69

Lou
In looking over your last couple of posts I am wondering and scratching my head.
We now know according to what we have read here that the gunsmith who built this gun is a world class chamberer.
We also know that the tight bolt lift has now gone away on its own.
We are told it could have been a locking lug burr that has now fallen/broken off but of course with a world class gunsmith that isn't a possibility.
I am glad the gun is working right but now I am suspicous of both threads.
Lynn
 
It was pretty embarrasing when the thing was smooth as silk for the smith.
Even more so when we fired, what I would call a hot load and it functioned perfectly.
I was looking for a hole to crawl in.
 
Factory Brass

Because factory brass varies so wildly from out the box it's essentially useless to measure, gauge or headspace from it. Even trimming cases, turning necks or any other brass trimming procedures are simply working off of this variance until you can find a way to pop out the brass for consistency.


Soooo, What I'm saying is, if you chamber SHORT enough you can then re-set each and every shoulder to within half-a-thou of each other so that your fireform (popping out) step is consistent. NOW you can go after the brass.

al

What do you consider to be custom brass?
Buy a box of Lapua and tell me what you find out.
 
Tight chamber

Lou
In looking over your last couple of posts I am wondering and scratching my head.
We now know according to what we have read here that the gunsmith who built this gun is a world class chamberer.
We also know that the tight bolt lift has now gone away on its own.
We are told it could have been a locking lug burr that has now fallen/broken off but of course with a world class gunsmith that isn't a possibility.
I am glad the gun is working right but now I am suspicous of both threads.
Lynn

Lynn,
As the guy used to say in Dragnet: "just the facts, ma'am". The lug burr was a guess on my part as were most of the suggestions offered by everyone else. Please explain or clarify your statement around suspicions. Do you mean inaccurate info., bad brass, smooth chamber, the gunsmith, etc?. What is suspicious of both threads? This is why I've asked Mark to publish the results because many, you, myself and Mark, are scratching their heads. Now I'm scratching the other side of my head trying to sein your meaning.

Lou Baccino
 
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Threads

I think Lynn means both forum threads, not screw threads.
 
Chino69

Lou
We are being left out of the loop on the details then you come on and say we basicaly mis-diagnosed the problem.
It is farely common to get a tight bolt lift if you don't lube your lugs.It is common to get a tight bolt lift if you fire 5-6 shots in a hurry and let the next round sit in the chamber.When fireforming it is common for a 30 grain load to be harder to extract than a case that has been fired twice and using 31.5 grains.
You have been communicating with Mark by phone so you know what he has been doing and if the brass is new or once or twice fired.
We don't know if he cleaned the gun and lubed the lugs then took a 30 grain load to the gunsmith and all was well but that round had been fired 3 times.
Tight bolt lift doesn't just vanish so something has changed in the equation we aren't hearing about here.
Lynn
 
33 Grains at the smith, smith's round was 34.5
Lugs and raceway were lubed.
New Lapua brass
Never fired more than 3 shots in a row period
My wayout theory is that the gun was warm at the range and cold at the smiths. My mechanical engineering friends say this shouldn't matter.
 
Clarity

Lynn,
Thanks for the clarity. Everyone is scratching their heads on this one. The only reason I jumped into this thread is that I received a private e-mail from Mark (Twud) asking if I had experience with this gunsmith. I replied that I had and we discussed the man's work, personality, etc. Like anyone worth knowing, this gunsmith is a rare combination of talent, opinion, reputation, a loyal following and he has a playful contrariness that may throw off certain people. I personally like the man and have a good rapport with him. I've recommended people to him and they have come away impressed.
It's part of my normal work ethic to bring business to people who have taken care of me as a way of displaying loyalty to the craftsman as well as making sure that my friends receive quality work.

When Mark (Twud) brought this initial problem up, I picked up on it because I have the same chamber, reamed with the same reamer, etc. My buddy has the same deal. Every time I've conversed with Mark, in private, I've asked him to post his results so that we can all learn and collectively help a fellow shooter. There is no information being witheld from these posts. I've asked Mark, in private, whether he lubed his lugs, what load he's using, etc.; the normal good practice procedures one would ask in trying to solve a problem. I also don't believe in splashing a gunsmith's name all over the internet while a client is working through a problem, as I believe in integrity and fair play. It's also one of the reasons I use my real name and not an internet name to hide behind. I also encouraged Mark to work the problem through with the gunsmith because I knew he would make it right if his work was at fault. I was 99.9% certain the gunsmith's work and methodolgy was solid. I also knew that Mark would be subjected to a degree of good natured ribbing, by the gunsmith, over this incident. That kind of ribbing doesn't bother me as I'm a character myself and don't mind having a little good natured sport with someone who can take it. I work in an industry where you need a thick skin to survive; pipe fitters, crane operators, riggers, boilermakers, millwrights, machinists, electricians, nuclear control room operators, engineers, managers, etc.; you get the picture.

The one element I've tried to interject into this whole subject is to vouch for the quality, reputation, and following of the gunsmith who performed this work. There have been some, who have alluded, that perhaps this gunsmith's work is to blame, or the reamer was not right or some other reason for this problem. I'm scratching my head like everyone else but I was never scratching my head over whether this gunsmith knew what he was doing or not. Mark (Twud) was looking for a level of verification from me as to the quality of this man's work and I provided that. Mark was stand up enough to follow the advice I gave him and resolved his problem with the gunsmith. He didn't resort to name calling, unfounded claims, etc. I purposely did this to provide a template for others to follow.

Lou Baccino
 
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Twud....Got to watch him ream a PPC chamber. He is an artist, cutting the chamber 010" at a pass. He plays that lathe like a harp.

Sounds like a pretty good cut to me. I don't think I would get a very good chamber if I tried that.
 
Pacecil

I knew sooner or later somebody was going to mention that 10 inch ppc chamber.I think he got in a hurry and simply forgot the decimal.
Lynn
 
Cut

It's a new round the 6MM PPC Magnum.
Takes 140 grains of powder with a MV of 5,200 fps.
Very inaccurate, but fast.
Thanks for catching my mistake.
 
New Round

It's a new round the 6MM PPC Magnum.
Takes 140 grains of powder with a MV of 5,200 fps.
Very inaccurate, but fast.
Thanks for catching my mistake.

Mark,
Are you sure about those figures, i.e. 140 grains of powder with a velocity of 5,200 ft/sec????? Please double check and get back to us as that doesn't sound right. You sure the man wasn't messing with you? Remember, I told you he has a playful contrariness and has been known to get people on the hook by playing a practical joke. This is what I meant when I said he's a character. I think you've been had.

Lou Baccino
 
Lou,
I was messin' with Pacecil for messing with me over my mistake. Now are you messing with me?
This was my idea not the man.
aboz
 
Mark,
Are you sure about those figures, i.e. 140 grains of powder with a velocity of 5,200 ft/sec????? Please double check and get back to us as that doesn't sound right. You sure the man wasn't messing with you? Remember, I told you he has a playful contrariness and has been known to get people on the hook by playing a practical joke. This is what I meant when I said he's a character. I think you've been had.

Lou Baccino


C'MON Lou, the man said 10-inch chamber......... how many guys have you known who can accurately estimate ten inches???

THAT should have been your clue.... ;)

The Earge'schplitzen Loudenboomer returns! :eek:


LOL


al
 
Messing with you

Lou,
I was messin' with Pacecil for messing with me over my mistake. Now are you messing with me?
This was my idea not the man.
aboz

Mark,
No I wasn't messing with you it was just that I read it in the early morning hours. Nothing wrong with some fun.

Lou Baccino
 
Loudenboomer

C'MON Lou, the man said 10-inch chamber......... how many guys have you known who can accurately estimate ten inches???

THAT should have been your clue.... ;)

The Earge'schplitzen Loudenboomer returns! :eek:


LOL


al

Hey al,
I've had a recurring sinus infection since Thanksgiving; on my third course of antibiotics. Usually, I read these threads early in the morning and I'm not my usual 'panther quick and leather tough' self. Words from Johny Cash's 'The Rebel'. Ah, the good old days when Nick Adams was seeking justice, menthol cigarettes were hawked by an actor in a Dr's. smock on TV, and Sputnik had the Pentagon general's innards churning. I wasn't sure if Twud was being had or was making funny. I now know he was making funny.

What is your cut on all this with respect to Twud's problem that is not a problem now? I'm curious to see if you have an educated guess.

Personally, I would chalk it up to the great unknown and start shooting.

Lou Baccino
 
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