Thoughts on Benchrest Competition

[Mozella]

For some reason, the Sport seems to have lost some of its appeal. What used to be a fun Hobby has evolved into a job/career without pay.

Bring back the fun and I believe the membership will increase. Just my thoughts.



Glenn

Most likely you can't bring back the fun.

I shoot F Class, not BR, but I have been involved in a number of of sports which evolved and eventually got so sophisticated that they became a threat to themselves. Sailplane racing, for example, is now done in aircraft which cost form 50K to 150K for a well used example and after that bit of sticker shock you now you own such a specialized piece of equipment you can't operate it without a crew from a specialized airport including support equipment such as a tow plane, not something most folks have parked in their driveway. Sailplane clubs and glider port operators arrive on the scene and just as quickly go bankrupt because as enthusiastic as a few followers are, the general public is just not willing to pay the price to participate. And that price is not only cash, but time and effort as well.

Amateur auto racing and amateur yacht racing has gone down a similar path. It's sophisticated, very serious, and no longer something you can do well at if you go at it in a casual way.

When a middle-of-the-road BR shooter goes into deep depression if he accidentally leaves his thermometer, barometer, and hygrometer at home, you know that your particular branch of the sport is in too deep to ever recover. It's just too serious and equipment intensive.

 

[mks]

Wish you would share your thoughts....

+1 Wilbur

To me, a factory class makes a lot of sense to attract new shooters, because it holds less attraction for experienced shooters who already have custom guns. The newbies can shoot what they have, until they decide to jump in the deep end. Limiting factory guns to bipods instead of allowing $1000 front rests might make sense, too.

Keith

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think there should be a factory class but with real rests so they can buy equipment once and have a chance to get a gun shooting good and learn how to handle it.

 

[Chism G]

The Soul Of Benchrest

Benchrest is a CLIQUE sport/Hobby, as is many recreational sports activities. The biggest enemy to these type hobbies is attrition. You lose numbers faster than you gain. The first Benchrest match I attended, 15 years ago,had twice as many shooters in attendance as we see at the same shoot today.
What causes this seemingly inevitable trend? There are many answers to that question.

The topic of "how to attract members" has been discussed on this forum every year.,since I've been visiting. As of yet,there has not been a viable solution as to how to recruit members, in sufficient numbers to maintain status quo.

I am here to stay until old age(Attrition) dictates otherwise. Most of my Benchrest buddies feel the same way. It may be a good idea to enjoy the Sport as long as we can and not worry about growth in numbers.



Glenn

 

[zippy06]

I am shocked. Just shocked at the level of ignorance in the sport and this thread.
Why?
No one has mentioned the real competition.

Not just ourselves. "Hey, Did ya get a new barrel this year?" "hey, we been shooting together how many years? When can I afford a new barrel? I had to put new tires on the wife's car....."
How many new games are out there in the last 10yrs?
1 gun, 2 gun, 3 gun , 4.....? Not too mention all the computer game stuff. "Staying in the comfortable A/C for the summer"...
Hear about the kid that went on a 7 day bender of junk food and computer games? No? On the 10th day, his computer game buddies called the cops.
Supposed to be a courtesy/wellness check visit....SWAT kicked in the door. He was already dead.
Camp Perry keeps beating us. Something new every year. They have a sniper course. Show up with a buddy and shoot 200y. Then switch positions. Every year their most popular game......80-90 Last year +400 shooters. I am prolly exaggerating....I only get the emails from CMP and NRA.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/07/vintage-sniper-rifle-match-july-17th-at-camp-perry/

Benchrest ain't cool anymore. It's boring. Costs a SH*t load of money.
Sniper shoots are cool. Ever go to one? Ever see the table of prizes????
It's on Accurate shooter.
I forget his name. That guy does really good interviews. Shot show, etc......

Anyways. Those guys might migrate over to Benchrest. We are all getting older....
Been talking to a lot of old shot gunners lately......

I like to think. That I have helped 3-5 new Benchrest shooters. But, we always help each other. it's real hard to get a new guy involved. But, every year that is a goal. I get a lot of help from the other guys. Some stay some go. Every year. There are 3-5 people who stick their nose in. Phone calls, emails, offers of loaning equipment and components, ..............................WHO knows?

 

[C.L. Peterson]

Benchrest Ramblings

When I Started!!!
--Club dues were $20.00/ year---No match fees for members.
--Shooters were all club members or invited by members
--Wooden Benches anchored to telephone poles--if it moved just keep pressure against one leg.
--Range was covered but floor was gravel-rock
--Reloading are was under tarpolians attached to shooting area
--Sand bags for front rest--leave until next month and for others to use in between matches.
--Some city boys had a "Sinclair".
--Rear bag was a smaller sand bag---didn't really need as we were all bag squeezers.
--Target Backer system was present but didn't work the best.
Didn't really need as we could usually count the 5 bullet holes.
--We followed the NBRSA/IBS rules but it was not a registered shoot.
--About half of the guns were factory guns and rest real Benchrest Guns
--Factory guns were an advantage--you could pre-load or factory ammo
--Resizing cases with Wilson streight line die only sizing neck --tapping back and forth with brass hammer.
Usually could shoot an agg or match before needing to set the shoulder back.
--Seating bullets with Wilson seater die by hand on bench--Sissies used an Arbor press
--Guns were all cleaned with Hoppes #9, followed by Sweets
Factory guns being tougher were cleaned sometimes after an agg or match.
--Scoring was outside edge to outside edge of group with calipers and either 0.224 or 0.243 subtracted
This was written down on paper, 5 groups added and divided with adding machines--no computers
Mistakes happened--needed to watch your target and score sheet
Goals
--Beating a fellow competitor, friend, mentor, enemy
--Remember next month your his goal to beat.
NEVER WIN A MATCH
Winner has to buy drinks at local watering hole

BENCHREST TODAY
--The above shooters would not be competitive today.
--Only a small number of above evolve into today's shooters.
--As the group sizes get smaller our numbers are getting smaller.
IS This The Price We Pay For that Lowered GRAND AGGREGATE NUMBER?????

Just my Ramblings

Agree with Glenn Chism--"BRING BACK THE FUN"

clp

 

[JerrySharrett]

Cecil, being able to chamber your own barrels should bring some fun back, no??


,

 

[C.L. Peterson]

Interesting

Today at our club

About 1/3 of our shooters have a lathe.
Its therefore presumed they chamber their own barrels????

More and more good shooters make their own bullets.
Its presumed they shoot the bullets they make????

Is this FUN or SURVIVAL???

CLP

 

[Joe Maisto]

This thread rates as one of the best , certainly the most interesting. Safe to say it covers everyone, especially in this particular endeavor. That said, I will admit that shooting aspirins at 100yd with a quality.22 ( 40 x or better )
with the same group of old foggies, ( like me) on Sunday mornings at the local range ( for nickels and dimes) was pure unadulterated fun. One poke at the pill is all you got, then it was the next guys turn. If you didn't get the WHOLE pill, they wouldn't pay you.

 

[glp]

Comptetition

IMO, is an inner thing. I shoot IBS score and have for 18 years or so, because I like to compete. However, when I go to a match the last thing on my mind is "I need to beat so and so or this fellow or that lady." What I try to focus on is doing the best I can on that day, with my given rig and the conditions Mother Nature has dealt us all. At the end of the day if I have done well or won, so much the better. I need to worry about myself, not the other shooters on the list that day. It's worked for me...some of the time.

As for the other issues raised...cost of bullets, barrels, gunsmithing sevices, travel, etc. there is nothing anyone of us can do about that unless we make or fit our own...then you need to spend thousands on machining equipment and time and effort. For instance, I choose to buy bullets from Randy Robinett because I just can't envision myself ever making anything that can compare...and I have no desire to do so. Often I've listened to someone complain about shooting costs while they puff away on a cigarette, 2 packs a day, $3000-$4000 a year cost. What are your priorities? Except for the sehr wealthy, we can't do it all!

 

[jimcasey01]

Flame me

The more money it costs to compete, the fewer people can afford to compete. With few or no sponsors to offset the cost of competition, rising costs to compete, we will have near zero growth, a sport dying of attrition. A few suggestions to possibly help;

1) A “claiming price” for any firearm used in the “open classes”. Knowing that any competitor can purchase your firearm after the match for “X” amount, should keep most people from putting 2-3 times “X” into their rifle. To keep “friends” from claiming another “friends” rifle, put a limit of 1 or 2 or whatever “claims” per time frame.

2) Push for sponsors at the events, manufacturer perks for the winners. If the shooters do not purchase their products, the manufacturers loose. Look at racing with its nonautomotive field of sponsors. Local matches, local sponsors. National matches, national sponsors. The little league ball teams do this, why not BR?

3) Make the events more of a family event. Times have changed since BR started, the sport needs to change with the times. Years ago, 97% (approx) of the people lived in the country, where firearms were common. Most people now live in metropolitan areas, where guns are illegal, hidden or frowned upon. When I was young, every household had a piece of furniture called a gun cabinet. It was to show off some of your prized possessions. They almost don’t exist anymore. Now days, most youngsters think guns are for killing people, not for sport. Thank you Hollywood and the music industry for a colossal distortion of reality. I do not have any recommendations to accomplish this, but I do know that my wife has no interest in going to a regional or national match with me. This alone will keep me from spending money to attend larger matches. Someone with more knowledge than me can throw out recommendations on this one.

4) UBR format, score, so someone with a Savage .223 can compete, somewhat, against a 30BR for score, at least at the club level. If the club level is not active and growing, where does growth for national events come from?

5) AR-15 class, a very popular firearm owned by almost all young shooters in this country. It was tried I believe a few years ago, but did not come to fruition because of a lack of interest. Possibly it needs to be reexamined and the reasons for its failure determined and corrected. My opinion is that almost no one outside of the BR community knew about it. So how in the world can you expect people to compete if they do not know of its existence? I did not hear about it until it was over. The BR shooters are already involved, it is the non BR shooters that need to be informed if growth is the goal

I realize that these suggestions are extreme, and may not be the correct answers, but to continue doing business as usual has caused no increase in the number of competitors at the matches in many years. Possibly the powers that be, need to be pushed a bit for some changes.

 

[C.L. Peterson]

Seperate topic

Doc, I've seen that you make your bullets also; maybe you (or someone else) will respond to the following.

1. Why do that when good bullets are available from other sources?
2. What is needed to make your own bullets and what's the approximate cost of the equipment?
3. Excluding the cost of the equipment and the value of your time, what's the approximate per completed bullet?
4. About how long does it take to make, say, 500 or 1,000 bullets?

This needs its own thread!!!!
You start it.

CLP

 

[JerrySharrett]

Not much benchrest around here. I shoot mostly at my and a couple of other private ranges even though I have 4 club ranges within 30 minutes and I belong to two of them.

These public ranges, some even up to 30 great benches all the shooters there are shooting those black guns. The ones we disarmed our troops with when the army went to 22's.

.

 

[Chism G]

Bring Back The Crawfish to Louisiana

It was shut down the year I had planned to attend.

Talk about a huge loss in the fun department. It's been fifteen years now and you still hear talk about the "Crawfish" at shoots here in the Gulf Coast Region. It may be too little, too late, but its an idea. The food and fun down in South Louisiana was a big attraction. The match could only handle about 120 shooters. If you didn't get your reservation in early,you were just SOL. We lost a chunk of population due to the closure of the Range. ATTRITION

Range closures,throughout the country, have had an impact on the recruitment of new members. The first Benchrest Rifle I ever laid eyes on was at a Public Shooting range. We can all see what's happening but there's not much that can be done about it


Glenn

 

[Jammer Six]

You're asking the wrong people.

You're asking people who are already bench rest shooters how to get more bench rest shooters.

 

[Chism G]

What????

You're asking the wrong people.

You're asking people who are already bench rest shooters how to get more bench rest shooters.

WOW!...Well Jammer, lets hear your opinion about who I should be asking to get more shooters interested in benchrest.

My post was more directed at retention of the numbers we already have. The Crawfish,when it was held in Louisiana,was a well attended Match. It was a good place for a new shooter to get acquainted with the people and the Sport.

There are potential mentors at every Benchrest Match. Mentors don't necessarily have to be HOF shooters. I was attracted to the sport,at a local Public Range,when I happened to meet a benchrest shooter named Russell Rosene. Its all his fault.


Glenn

 

[Wilbur]

Let's ask why the folks (that didn't die) quit traveling to benchrest matches. I actually did that years ago and while I don't remember the exact "account" I received, it was much different than I thought it would be. There are more reasons to quit benchrest shooting than anyone can imagine. Largely, the reason folks quit, is that they just quit. The reasons for quitting were all over the place! A couple of fellows said they were "unhappy" with how they were treated but again the reasons were quite varied - too varied to fix. Pretty sure about that as I don't remember trying to fix anything based on those hundred or so responses.

I don't believe that you can change the game with any success. If you're going to do that just start something new. You risk losing the current competitors...no, let me say that differently....you WILL lose the current competitors and those you're going after won't show up more than once. AND...while I don't believe it will work, I'll help all I can in the case that I'm wrong. Remember what I said there!!

Those that are younger and have a bit of memory may remember differently. If you do, then post what you remember. It may help even though you don't want to do anything about it yourself. If you believe we need to do it again, say so. Doesn't cost much to do - if you say it real fast.

I'll tell you why I quit - I was spending what little dab of money we had having "Mr Big Time" while my wife and kids were doing without. I ain't over it yet which means I'll never actually get over it but I'm not driving to St Louis on slick tires either. The wife and kids (they're not kids anymore) ain't much better off but I'll leave that one on the table to think about.

 

[Hunter]

This is the number 1 thing that benchrest shooters can do..... Take your rifle to a public range on a nice weekend afternoon and take the time to answer questions and maybe even let an interested person shoot a few.

I like that idea.

Let's ask why the folks (that didn't die) quit traveling to benchrest matches....

I'll tell you why I quit - I was spending what little [time and] money had having "Mr Big Time" while my wife and kids were doing without.

Wilbur, I suspect your answer covers a lot of folks, to some extent. I often wonder about the reasonableness of driving 600 miles (or more), one way, to participate in a shooting match. (Even if winning was a realistic possibility for me, I'd probably wonder the same thing.) Thankfully, there are club matches nearby where I can scratch the itch to shoot against other folks in a structured environment; regrettably, there are not enough such matches.

I also wonder why some folks don't shoot nearby club matches, yet go to far-away "registered" matches.

[Reworded last paragraph.]

 

[Wilbur]

I can answer that first person! The benchrest competitor could care less about what happens at a club match.

 

[mrspradlin]

This is the number 1 thing that benchrest shooters can do..... Take your rifle to a public range on a nice weekend afternoon and take the time to answer questions and maybe even let an interested person shoot a few.
Most shooters have never seen a benchrest rifle in real life..much less touched a 1 1/2 ounce trigger.

I bought a varmint rifle built by a local gunsmith who is a BR shooter and he wanted me to bring it to a match so he can look at it. While I was there another shooter asked me to shoot his targets. I was hooked.