This gets a little theoretical so...

B

Boyd Allen

Active member
If you are driven to distraction by this sort of discussion, you might want to pass on by.

Years back, a high master high power shooter told me that there is a phenomenon that can take place when you look too long at a sight picture. He said that it is like the image gets "burned into your retina" (figure of speech, I am sure) so that if your sight picture changes you do not see it, you see the "burned in" image. He told me that there are strategies to prevent this, such as momentarily looking away into the distance and the coming back to the sights, realigning and finishing the shot. I mentioned this to another fellow, that I knew at the time that had done well at the state and national levels in CF pistol silhouette, and he told me that for the best results that shots needed to be made within a 20 second time frame. I believed both of these fellows, but was at somewhat of a loss as to how to explain this to others in a way that would not seem like some sort of highly suspect shooter voodoo....until I happened to be watching tonight's episode of Perception (TV show).
It seems that the concept that is central to this particular story is "change blindness".
https://www.google.com/search?q=cha...t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox
It turns out that this is not shooter voodoo after all.

The question is, could this be something that could affect benchrest shooters? Back in the day, I did a little experiment with a rifle that was outfitted with an aperture sight. I shot groups, from the bench, using a front rest and rear sandbag, intentionally spending an inordinately long time staring at the sight picture for each shot, and a second group shooting as soon as I was confident in the sight picture. There was an noticeable difference in favor of the group that I shot more quickly. I know that there were a lot of uncontrolled variables, but the conditions seemed relatively mild and steady, and the rifle was a 30-06 that was loaded with heavy match bullets, and I was shooting at 100 yards.

Comments? Experiences? Ridicule ;-)?
 
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Why, that's the stupidest theory I've heard all year!

HOW do some people....


I mean,



LOL.


I couldn't help with the 'Comments' nor the 'Experiences' so's I tried my hand at the 'Ridicule"

How'd I do?


The only "Perception Memory" I've experienced is that when looking at a DARK against LIGHT object, or vise versa especially in primary colors, when I go to move my vision I get that reversed image thingie.... like reds turn green and lights go dark...... http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...fr=crmas&sz=all&va=color+reversal+after-image


While this may not be the same thing it'll sure teach you not to stare too long nor fixedly!

al
 
Al,
It was only so so, a bit light on personal attack ;-)

What my friend the high power shooter told me was that you would think that you were looking at a perfect sight picture, when it had deteriorated slightly, or words to that effect.

Boyd
 
I believe it!

Jim Fisher has some peculiar eyesight. Plagued with an ailment that I didn't understand other than he couldn't see good. Jim can shoot 4 really tight shots and then put one outside the border not knowing what happened. I'm sayin' way beyond what anything bad could cause. The only reason I could determine was that he thought he was aiming correctly and wasn't. Perhaps Jim's condition exaggerated the deal that Boyd stated ??

I did run a test long ago to determine if you could wear out a scope by looking through it. No, I didn't spend my time looking through a scope - I'm too clever for that. I set up a video camera to look for me and then played it back on the TV come the weekend...same thing...right? Turns out, too much looking ain't good. Had to send it back to Leupold. Keep those lens caps on!
 
Don't know if this applies, but back in the day, (away back), I shot a lot of 3 position small bore and when shooting all of the positions, and we were taught by a Olympic shooter, if you did not get the shot off in 11 seconds to put the rifle down and re-position yourselve. When ask if this was the cure for tense muscles, he said partly, but also to get the eyes re-forcused.
 
At River Bend if you stare through the scope very long you can be sure the flags will be doing something different the next time you look at them.
 
Yesterday I spent some time at the bench behind a rail gun. If you want to dwell on something that can psyche you out sit for just a short 10 minute period and watch what happens to the crosshair knowing that the gun itself and the target did not move.
 
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JerrySharrett said:
Yesterday I spent some time at the bench behind a rail gun. If you want to dwell on something that can psyche you out sit for just a short 10 minute period and watch what happens to the crosshair knowing that the gun itself and the target did not move.
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Yes, that will provoke a few hours thought for sure.

On the other side of that, remember when the backer cable moved the target frames at Riverbend? I was real close to stripping the screws in my rail before somebody told me the targets were moving - didn't figure it out on my own. John Henry woulda been proud of our use of hammers as I wasn't the only one that didn't catch on.
 
crb said:
Does waiting for floaters to move out of the center of your visual field count ?
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No, the floater erases image burn much the same as those drawing pads we had as kids where you raised the top flap and all was forgotton.
 
You did it again

Thanks Boyd, I now know why I did not do well in Slow Fire pistol.
I had heard about the 10 second rule to get the shot off but no one mentioned it was for the eyes.
Centerfire
 
11-20 seconds, eyes dry out enough to mess with sight image as well as eye muscle fatigue, and yes brain tends to correct to precieved image even if no longer there but just extremely close. best way I can splain it in street talk, and yep Olympic's champ is where I got it from also, rifle in my case at the time.
Slow fire pistol - muscle fatigue is the biggest reason for dropped shots - hold too long and get the quivers, Timed and rapid can be shot at exactly the same pace with a little practice takes all the pressure off of rapid that way. Its all 90% mental between those 2 ( I was a master class participant.)
Come to think of it once the basic motor skills are mastered all shooting becomes 90% mental.
 
Just a thought based on my limited experience: In BR shooting, if the reticle image is getting burned into your brain, then you aren't watching the flags enough. Something like: a few seconds lining up the crosshairs, a minute looking at the flags trying to figure out a consistent condition, a few seconds tweaking the sight picture, wait on the flags another minute, then pull the trigger. The only time I spend a lot of time looking through the scope is when I am trying to figure out how the hold for mirage.:confused::(

Cheers,
Keith
 
FBecigneul said:
Baseball players, the good ones, step out of the batter's box and scratch, adjust their batting gloves, and spit so the image of the last pitch isn't burned into their eyes.
Does Boyd suppose we should do all of the above before each shot?
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I tried the scratching and spitting part today at Unaka. The guy next to me complained that I scratched too long (yes I was scratching) and the wind blew my spit onto his front lens. Any other things to try Francis??
 
I saw a woman at a horse stable in the early 80s, she was so beautiful I can still see her today a clearly as ever. I am sure she is in her late 40s or 50s but I still see her in her early 20s. Is that kinda what you are talking about?
 
Very interesting thread! There are many things to learn here.

1. The sight pattern will freeze in your eyes or brain (what ever).

2. Rifle scopes can wear out if you look through them long enough but they can be repaired at the factory.

3. The image of a pretty girl from our youth will freeze in our brains.

These things are quite real and provable.

One more thing before I quit this rant, I am certain that the best wind flags will lie when they are needed the most.
 
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