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Max Shaffer
Guest
barrel has been out about a year. Any comments? What was Rem.'s perceived reason, or the advantage? Was there any advantage? Has anybody seen one shot or shot one? Max
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Yote
Guest
I think the perceived reason or advantage is rigidity. Whether it helps or not, I don't know. I've sighted in two different ones, and they both shot very well. Well under moa, during the sight in, but I haven't agged one.
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Bill Ohio
Guest
it was marketing, plain and simple
That triangular barrel profile is pretty damn weird. If it was an improvement to a regular barrel profile, rest assured every serious competitive shooter would be trying/considering it. And they're not.
As to rigidity, let's get something straight. When you remove material from an object, it is weakened. If you take a barrel, and flute it, or machine three flats onto it, you have just weakened that barrel. That is irrefutable.
However, for barrels of the same bore diameter and overall length, and THE SAME WEIGHT, is a triangular barrel stiffer than a cylindrical barrel or a fluted cylindrical barrel? That would be an interesting test.
In other words, what's the stiffest barrel shape for a given weight and length?
That triangular barrel profile is pretty damn weird. If it was an improvement to a regular barrel profile, rest assured every serious competitive shooter would be trying/considering it. And they're not.
As to rigidity, let's get something straight. When you remove material from an object, it is weakened. If you take a barrel, and flute it, or machine three flats onto it, you have just weakened that barrel. That is irrefutable.
However, for barrels of the same bore diameter and overall length, and THE SAME WEIGHT, is a triangular barrel stiffer than a cylindrical barrel or a fluted cylindrical barrel? That would be an interesting test.
In other words, what's the stiffest barrel shape for a given weight and length?
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murphy
Guest
To all concerned parties.
Remington have got a new one out, called the XHR. This one does not have the muzzle brake and has a non floating barrel. Under test in Guns and Game magazine, a 25/06 version put 3 shots into .4" and 5 shots into .39" with the same load. If they all shoot like that, sounds like Remington is on a winner.
Remington have got a new one out, called the XHR. This one does not have the muzzle brake and has a non floating barrel. Under test in Guns and Game magazine, a 25/06 version put 3 shots into .4" and 5 shots into .39" with the same load. If they all shoot like that, sounds like Remington is on a winner.
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
On another subject entirely, it never ceases to amaze me that products are supplied to the various magazines or writers by the manufacturer, not randomly selected off the shelf by the person running the test. To my mind, a certain element of the equation could go missing that way.
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murphy
Guest
To John Kielley
Judging buy the lousy accuracy I see in most gun reviews, I don't think that the manufacturers cheat a great deal with especially selected rifles, not in this particular magazine anyway.
Judging buy the lousy accuracy I see in most gun reviews, I don't think that the manufacturers cheat a great deal with especially selected rifles, not in this particular magazine anyway.
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AVanGorder
Guest
When I first saw the barrel I thought it was just odd. Now, I'm starting to kinda like them. Perhaps it is because they are different.
Adrian
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Louis Boyd
Guest
Remingtons triangular barrel
A triangular shape is essentially a form of fluting. A triangle barrel is stiffer than a cylindrical barrel for the same weight. It's not the stiffest possible shape, but it's the stiffest (and best cooling ) for a regular polygon (triangle, square, pentagon, etc.) for it's weight. I don't believe the Remington rifle's accuracy is determined by it being triangular. It's just that it's a lightweight hammer forged barrel. The one I looked at briefly didn't appear to be free floated. It would be interesting to see how a barrel made from a quality blank in that contour using cut rifling by a good barrel maker like Krieger would perform. Id expect it to be as good as other fluted barrels of the same weight.
A triangular shape is essentially a form of fluting. A triangle barrel is stiffer than a cylindrical barrel for the same weight. It's not the stiffest possible shape, but it's the stiffest (and best cooling ) for a regular polygon (triangle, square, pentagon, etc.) for it's weight. I don't believe the Remington rifle's accuracy is determined by it being triangular. It's just that it's a lightweight hammer forged barrel. The one I looked at briefly didn't appear to be free floated. It would be interesting to see how a barrel made from a quality blank in that contour using cut rifling by a good barrel maker like Krieger would perform. Id expect it to be as good as other fluted barrels of the same weight.
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Louis Boyd
Guest
That not a simple question to answer. It depends on the ratio of bore diameter to the maximum outside radius and whatever other constraints might be required. There are computer programs using a technique called "finite element analysis" which are great for optimizing shapes for various desired parameters. If the outside radius is several times larger than the bore and there are no other considerations then it will proably be a Y shape each leg of the Y fairly thin (maybe 1 to 10) compared it's length. They legs may be tapered and not necessarily with straight or parallel sides. It needs a cylindrical "core" with some minium wall thickness in the middle of the Y.
Of course their are other considerations for a real rifle barrel including cooling, being able to take the internal pressure within strain limits way below breaking limits, , not warping when the core is heated, not being damaged if dropped, being cost effective to manufacture, and being reasonable to handle and maintain.
Too stiff of barrel is not desirable. A small amount of flexure can compensate for shot to shot velocity variations in the ammo within narrow ranges. That's part of what tuning loads is about.
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jackie schmidt
New member
Barrels
As far as accuracy is concerned, the ID of the barrel is far and away more important than the shape of the outside.
Stupid gimics come and go. Anybody remember that carbon fiber wrapped thing of a few years back.
But, there is always the ignorant and gullible who fall for these marketing ploys. Remington would do better if they just figured out a way to put a decent bore in a barrel........jackie
As far as accuracy is concerned, the ID of the barrel is far and away more important than the shape of the outside.
Stupid gimics come and go. Anybody remember that carbon fiber wrapped thing of a few years back.
But, there is always the ignorant and gullible who fall for these marketing ploys. Remington would do better if they just figured out a way to put a decent bore in a barrel........jackie
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f d shuster
Guest
factory barrels
if anyone is interested in the "quality" of some ( not all) factory barrels, go to the 6mmBR site, barrels section and click-on the Dan Lilja borescope video, showing a new, unfired 7mm Magnum factory barrel, up close and personal. Junk can be junk, no matter what its' outside shape. I've also looked at the bores of Tikka hammer forged barrels ( including my 308), and they have all been a work of art, almost the quality of my Hart, Shilen and Krieger barrels. If Tikka, and a few other factories can do it, why can't brand "R"? I'd blame the bean counters and those who dictate the quality/cost factor.
if anyone is interested in the "quality" of some ( not all) factory barrels, go to the 6mmBR site, barrels section and click-on the Dan Lilja borescope video, showing a new, unfired 7mm Magnum factory barrel, up close and personal. Junk can be junk, no matter what its' outside shape. I've also looked at the bores of Tikka hammer forged barrels ( including my 308), and they have all been a work of art, almost the quality of my Hart, Shilen and Krieger barrels. If Tikka, and a few other factories can do it, why can't brand "R"? I'd blame the bean counters and those who dictate the quality/cost factor.
When Ebay still sold barrels, I bought many dozens of take off barrels for experiments.
I do not have a bore scope, but I do have a Nite Ize 20" fiber optic. With that and a magnifying lens, I can see the last 1" of the bore and grooves very well.
The barrels from Lilja, Hart, Stainless Shilen, Lothar Walther, Krieger, and Parker Hale have obviously been lapped at the factor.
The Win, Rem, Ruger, and Douglas barrels obviously have not been factory lapped.
But some of the Win 7mmRemMag barrels and some of the Rem 7mmRemMag barrels look awful, and some look as good as possible without factory lapping.
And those take off Rem 7mmRM barrels that look good will shoot sub moa.
What does it all mean?
The range of quality of Remington barrel is very wide.
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f d shuster
Guest
factory barrels, part 2
Clark: yes, I absolutely agree with you. I have several Remington & Savage factory barrels that are "not pretty", in fact , far from it, but they are very good varmint grade shooters. More copper fouling than my hand-lapped, naturally, but still usable. At best, the quality of a factory barrel is a crap shoot: you may get a "good" one or it could be outright junk.
Clark: yes, I absolutely agree with you. I have several Remington & Savage factory barrels that are "not pretty", in fact , far from it, but they are very good varmint grade shooters. More copper fouling than my hand-lapped, naturally, but still usable. At best, the quality of a factory barrel is a crap shoot: you may get a "good" one or it could be outright junk.
keithcandler
New member
My neighbor has one in a 380
It shoots and handles like a sporter weight barrel. 3/4" accuracy with a NON tuned gun has been the results of his rifle...all he did was adjust the trigger.
It shoots and handles like a sporter weight barrel. 3/4" accuracy with a NON tuned gun has been the results of his rifle...all he did was adjust the trigger.
Doug Kennedy
Hemi Road Runner
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chino69
Guest
Gimmicks, etc.
Jackie,
Don't forget the E-Tronix rifles that never took off. Compare Savage to Remington with regards to their marketing strategies. Savage listens to their client base and comes out with products to meet the demand. They have more choices in rate of twist, the Acu Trigger, F class rifles, chamberings, etc. Savage realized, early on, there is a market niche between off the shelf factory rifles and custom rifles. Remington, in my opinion, has accountants and bean counters running the company and their products reflect this. In today's economy and market, survival means listening and responding to your client base.
Lou Baccino
Jackie,
Don't forget the E-Tronix rifles that never took off. Compare Savage to Remington with regards to their marketing strategies. Savage listens to their client base and comes out with products to meet the demand. They have more choices in rate of twist, the Acu Trigger, F class rifles, chamberings, etc. Savage realized, early on, there is a market niche between off the shelf factory rifles and custom rifles. Remington, in my opinion, has accountants and bean counters running the company and their products reflect this. In today's economy and market, survival means listening and responding to your client base.
Lou Baccino
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40EZXS
Guest
Tri-Profile
Today on the Internet..."some where". I saw a Lilja barrel with this Tri-Profile
Now,where ???
Today on the Internet..."some where". I saw a Lilja barrel with this Tri-Profile
Now,where ???
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katokoch
Guest
Ecconomics drives manufactures...
If one examines the gun market the retail price of a product is is reflected by the manufacture making a profit, the distributor makeing a profit and the retailer making a profit. Example manufacture makes a product that cost and profit equal $405.00. The distributor pays the manufacture $450 and the distributor sells to the retailer for $495.00 and the retailer sells to the consumer for $545.00.
Now break down the cost of the original product:
Action, bolt, bolt handle, silver soldering, bottom metal, mag box, lug, and screws, sights, swivel studs = $200.
The barrel metal, deep drilling, reaming, and buttoning, turning, threading, chambering,headspacing, crowning, polishing, engraving and bluing = $100.
The stock, (injection molding/or wood laminate) inlett, sand, finish, $35.
Marketing, product liability insurance, administrative cost, profit $45.
To package, and ship $25.00.
Comparison to custom:
Action $850.
Bottom metal, $200.
Mag Box $50.
Precision ground lug $30.
Trigger is $220.
Barrel is $285-$385
Barrel work is $250.
Bluing (optional) is $200.
Stock is $500.00
This comparison kinda shows what you are getting with a factory rifle.
There is not much money there for (tooling) custom sharpened deep drill bits, reamers, custom profile buttons, triple stress relieving and hand lapping.
The custom actions are more than the entire factory rifle.
It all goes back to you get what you pay for.
Nat Lambeth
If one examines the gun market the retail price of a product is is reflected by the manufacture making a profit, the distributor makeing a profit and the retailer making a profit. Example manufacture makes a product that cost and profit equal $405.00. The distributor pays the manufacture $450 and the distributor sells to the retailer for $495.00 and the retailer sells to the consumer for $545.00.
Now break down the cost of the original product:
Action, bolt, bolt handle, silver soldering, bottom metal, mag box, lug, and screws, sights, swivel studs = $200.
The barrel metal, deep drilling, reaming, and buttoning, turning, threading, chambering,headspacing, crowning, polishing, engraving and bluing = $100.
The stock, (injection molding/or wood laminate) inlett, sand, finish, $35.
Marketing, product liability insurance, administrative cost, profit $45.
To package, and ship $25.00.
Comparison to custom:
Action $850.
Bottom metal, $200.
Mag Box $50.
Precision ground lug $30.
Trigger is $220.
Barrel is $285-$385
Barrel work is $250.
Bluing (optional) is $200.
Stock is $500.00
This comparison kinda shows what you are getting with a factory rifle.
There is not much money there for (tooling) custom sharpened deep drill bits, reamers, custom profile buttons, triple stress relieving and hand lapping.
The custom actions are more than the entire factory rifle.
It all goes back to you get what you pay for.
Nat Lambeth