the 22-250 for f class ?

PS--What is the expected yardage accuracy of the 30br? But I suppose most all shooting will be under
300....And none over 500....
John, I don't really know. In his post, Roland gave his experience at 600, some good placements, and a win on a calm day. That sounds just about right.

There are better chamberings for 600 yards. It isn't that the rile isn't accurate, but it puts too much on the shooter. Think on it -- all this talk about less wind drift with high BC bullets is true, what's false is that you can somehow shoot through the wind. You can't, mistakes are just a little more forgiven.

I once took my 1,000 yard HG to a 300 yard mach at Charlotte & shot it in the unlimited class. That was a .520 B.C. bullet (real B.C., measured by doppler radar) at 3,200 fps. I didn't do well. After match 5 (no coaching allowed during matches) Dave Tooley came up to me & said "That rifle's trying to shoot, why the hell did you shoot when you did?"

Obviously, he -- and others -- saw something I missed. I pulled the trigger at the wrong times. So point one is, you just can't shoot through the wind. That day, the HV match followed unlimited, & I decided since I'd shot the prevailing right-to-left wind so poorly, I'd shoot the infrequent left-to-right. And I won that HV match. Neither the poor placement in unlimited nor the HV win had anything to do with equipment, just the shooter.

There is an old saying, beware the one-gun man. If you know your rifle well, holding off with a .30 BR is about like holding off with a 6 Dasher. You just have to hold off more, so any mistakes you make will hurt more.

Still, it's a fact that depending on what compromises you're willing to make, there are better choices for 600 than a .30 BR.

But one of your desires was for a long barrel life. With a .30 BR, 5,000 rounds competitive life is common, more doesn't require too much luck. I've heard of 7,500 or more *competitive* life.

A Dasher or 6 BR with 105s will do everything you want, plus win at 600. The bullets are a bit cheaper, but the barrel will be toast, competitively, in far less rounds. Soon as I put a number to it, every Dasher lover in the U.S. will be all over my tail. How about this: a 6 ppc is sort of expected to give between 1,000 and 1,500 rounds, except for really big match competitions. I think Tony Boyer figures 250-400 rounds for big match barrel life.

A Dasher will give less than a 6 PPC.

If you want more rounds on the barrel and good 600 yard capability, a .308 to .30/06 would be my choice, with a well-balanced bullet about 190 grains. You'll not see that on any match reports, though I do believe a .308 still holds the single group IBS record at 600. Well, single group records aren't the best indicators, aggs tell more.

The Dasher is easier to shoot for wins. Elmer Keith said "recoil doesn't bother me." Depends on what you man by "bother." In benchrest competition, recoil bothers everybody; it is simply harder to shoot a rifle that has more recoil. Firing 20 to 40 rounds without a mistake is very rare.

Most every choice in competitive shooting involves compromises. If rifle weight isn't a factor, recoil ceases to be an issue, but an 75-pound rifle (what my 1K Heavy Gun weighs) is a compromise in & of itself. And while each round costs more, the barrel will last longer. Guy named Alvin Johnson has 99 lifetime IBS points (100 is gold level), and has used 1 barrel on his .300 Ackley LG since 1995. I'll allow that's a bit uncommon.

Here's a column B thought: a mediocre barrel lasts a long time, too. Now what?

Bottom line: from what you described as your shooting goals, Roland led you right. A .30 BR will get the job done for what you describe, and is a pleasant round to shoot. More pluses than minuses on the compromise front. And I too wouldn't be without one.
 
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Hello again fellows....Once again I want to tell you how much I have appreciated the information you have
kindly shared with me on the 30 br...But now with work upset ,etc income will be a little tight for awhile.
So I will have to put my future plans on hold..But At least you have given me some wonderful ideas,etc..

I guess in the meantime I will have to keep shooting the 22-250...And just do the best I can until things
here improve..Once again,I say thank you one and all. John
 
Shoot that puppy till it wears out.

When you rebarrel, look hard at what is winning at your club. What makes the 30 BR so compelling in other formats might not be so compelling in your 250 yard F-Class.
 
Mr. Jennings,
it seems like a lot of these discussions are just as much about rifle Philosophy than anything, and I like Philosophy. I would be curious as to why you think the 30BR would or maybe could not be ideal in Bearchasers case. I am sincere in that request and would like to know your thoughts.

So sense I am bringing this up, here are some of my thoughts. The 30BR excells at score shooting, I think that is a fair statement. I shoot F-Class, and F-Class is just another form of Score shooting. Bearchasers 250 Yard F-Class matches are really going to be just 250 yard score shooting matches with a longer string of fire. I am of course assuming they will be either 15 or 20 shot relays. I am also assuming that in a 250 Yard match there either don't have pits or they are not using them. One of the big advantages of F-Class is feedback from the target, in this case ( and if I am correct about the pits) you are going to have to see the holes to get that feedback. That would also be a plus in shooting those big ole .308 holes. The 30BR should be just the ticket fpr these matches. I also am not much of one to go with the crowd, so I personally don't give a hoot what anyone else at these matches is shooting. The 30BR should also excell no matter what the competition is using.

Those are some of my thoughts, I would like to hear your's if you would care to share them...

Roland
 
Shoot that puppy till it wears out.

When you rebarrel, look hard at what is winning at your club. What makes the 30 BR so compelling in other formats might not be so compelling in your 250 yard F-Class.

The 6br is what most of the guys are using plus a couple of 223's and 308's John
 
The 6br is what most of the guys are using plus a couple of 223's and 308's John
Let me tell you a little story. Some time ago, but after the year 2000, a guy posted on this F-class forum that he shot at a range where they didn't allow flat base bullets for 1,000 yard shooting.

Not too many people saw any problem with that.

Except a few of us from the benchrest side...Turns out that the NBRSA 1,000 yard, single group HG record (10 shots) was, and is, held by Dave Tooley, shooting a 30-caliber, 187 BIBs flat-base bullet. Could be a freak. But the Australian record (IBS) is held by Jeff Rogers, shooting, you guessed it, a .30-caliber, 187 BIBs flat-base bullet. It wasn't true at the time of that original post, but the current IBS (World) record is held by Joel Pendergraft, shooting, of all things, a .30 caliber, 187 grain BIBs flat-base bullet. (For a while that was the World Record, since supplanted by Matt Kline at Williamsport.)

Just one of many reasons I have trouble with "what some guy" says.

& By the way, if I ever take a run at 600 yards, I'll shoot a .30, with a 187 BIBs. Not in a .30BR, probably in a 7.5x55 Swiss improved if a 17-pound light gun, or a .30 SOB if Heavy. The SOB is ballistically the same as the old .30/338, but made on the 8x68S case, so there is no belt.

Why? Partly because I already have them, and I'm cheap too. Partly because over the years I've learned to shoot .30s, and I like them. I like the bullet selection especially. Partly because in benchrest, when you don't have pits, you fire at clay pigeons laying in the dirt, and it can be hard to see just where a 6mm hits if it's a little damp.

Having said that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 6mm-- I have several of those too. Nothing wrong with a .338, either, except I make more mistakes with it in the 17-pound light gun (braked). Like I said, everything's a compromise: just understand them when you put down the money, and especially when you pull the trigger.

However you go, good luck. & I'll be curious to see the further exchanges between Roland & Mr. Jennings -- might learn something.
 
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Well,like I said we had some job changes made here so I will be holding of for awhile befor doing anything right away.
And,once again I truely appreciate all of the replies from all of you..I will say that there is one guy that come to the shoot and oce he was shooting a 30br but I have not seen it since.....And no we have no pits here..
 
Mr. Jennings,
it seems like a lot of these discussions are just as much about rifle Philosophy than anything, and I like Philosophy. I would be curious as to why you think the 30BR would or maybe could not be ideal in Bearchasers case. I am sincere in that request and would like to know your thoughts.

So sense I am bringing this up, here are some of my thoughts. The 30BR excells at score shooting, I think that is a fair statement. I shoot F-Class, and F-Class is just another form of Score shooting. Bearchasers 250 Yard F-Class matches are really going to be just 250 yard score shooting matches with a longer string of fire. I am of course assuming they will be either 15 or 20 shot relays. I am also assuming that in a 250 Yard match there either don't have pits or they are not using them. One of the big advantages of F-Class is feedback from the target, in this case ( and if I am correct about the pits) you are going to have to see the holes to get that feedback. That would also be a plus in shooting those big ole .308 holes. The 30BR should be just the ticket fpr these matches. I also am not much of one to go with the crowd, so I personally don't give a hoot what anyone else at these matches is shooting. The 30BR should also excell no matter what the competition is using.

Those are some of my thoughts, I would like to hear your's if you would care to share them...

Roland
I have a simple rule that guides the way I do things. If people have been doing it a while, and they seem reasonably competent, and a particular solution keeps bubbling to the top, no matter how much it might offend my personal preferences, I am going to give it a really hard look.

I don't know diddly about what might be a winner at bearchaser's game. But, if it isn't way outside the norm, there are some good local shooters that have competitive natures and will spend the money and time to do so.

Yes, innovations come along. They sometimes come from adjacent games as the 30 BR did. Sometimes they come from further afield.

But, to ignore what is already winning in that specific format at that specific location is pretty arrogant.

Do I think that the 30 BR is in the right ballpark? Yep. Do I think that something with a substantial advantage in ballistic coefficient *might* edge it out? Maybe. It just depends.

In our local 300 yard winter varmint league, the 10 ring is small. The 30 BRs rule on normal days. On windy days 10 twist 6 BRs shooting mid weight bullets are what wins. We all know that Lee is wearing folks out at his local 300 yard F-class with a 6 PPC.

bearchaser's range could be sheltered and not have bad wind conditions. It could be one of those places that are absolutely horrible winds. It could be that they shoot over a sea of switchgrass that let's the shooters read the wind unusually well.

In a Yogi Berra-ism, "Ya don't know till ya *know*". and it is, IMHO, possible enough that there are good local shooters that you can't rationally ignore what is winning there.

Hope that makes sense.

PS: in the interest of completeness, I shoot a 6 PPC, 6BR and a close analog of the 30 BR deepening on the game and conditions. Next year, I might also add a 22 Beggs to that. I don't like fiddling with different cartridges. But I do want to give myself the best opportunity to do well.
 
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Mr. Jennings, First I want to thank you for your thoughts on this, I do appreciate it.

And then to comment a little further. I am never arrogant, NEVER, a little hard headed and sometimes I like to reinvent the wheel a little. But arrogant and Roland Smith just don't go together EVER.

I also am not a follower, I have always liked to find my own path. Just because the locals are shooting "Y" doesn't mean that "G" won't be a little better maybe. My path may just lead me to "Y" and that would be fine with me, but I want to do in such a way that I "Find" that result and am not "Told" that result by someone else. Yep I guess my above statement is correct "I am hard headed" wouldn't have it any other way!

Thanks again for your comments and your thoughts. The fact that I don't share complettly those thoughts is a good thing. Hell the world would be a Boring place if we all agreed...

Roland
 
Never said that *you* were arrogant. If it came across that way, I apologize.

Hit a Drive By Trucker's concert for me down there. I do miss 'Bama.

Greg J.
 
I have used a 22-250 for "F" class a little bit. Mine is an eight twist McGowen barrel fitted to a CIL 950T action (Savage Single shot). It hasn't shot as well as I would like but I haven't worked with it enough to be fair. With 80 grain bullets at just over 3300fps, it does shoot pretty flat and is a pretty effective LR coyote rifle. Regards, Bill.
 
we only compete at 250 yards.20 rounds plus any sighters for relay

Two relays total40 rounds for score...My question for some of you
if your willing to give some advice is this...Is there a way to load
so as to help prevent the barrel burn out from accuring to fast?

And after this barrel is worn out I may go to the 6mmBR..(

Your barrel will heat up less if you shoot slower. Your spotter (if applicable), your target puller (if applicable), and your score might suffer. If you're concerned about burning up a barrel, then don't shoot F-Class, or rapids in High Power. Shoot metallic silhouette, or benchrest.

As to chambering options, for 250y, you should keep it simple and us a .223. Accurate, long barrel life, TONS of loading info and components, no messing around with forming brass, and no recoil. Plus, you can shoot FTR if you want. Get a fast twist barrel if you want to shoot the heavier bullets.
 
well at the last shoot I did pretty good with it and the wind was terrible..

I had a 196 out of 200 and beat out two 6MMBR'S as well..Gave me
second place..I felt pretty good with it..Got lots of comments as well..

Bill--I have already thought off going to 223 route...lol All I need to do is
change my barrel and bolt face..I have the bolt face and that was my number
1 worry...Barrels are easy to find and install..And I am thinking a 1 in 8 twist
heavy barrel..I have all the brass and dies as well...John
 
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