Testing ammo at test centers.

[tonykharper]

Testing ammo at the test centers.

There has been much discussion about how best test your rifle to find the best ammo.

The centers normally recommend you send in the barreled action without a stock or scope. They are equipped to put your barreled action into a vice and do the testing.

Many shooters have rejected that idea and believe it preferrable to test the rifle as it would be shot in a match.

Let me offer this:

When you test ammo all you can hope to do is to find the best (most consistent) ammo available.

If you have bedding issues, trigger timing issues, ignition issues, or anything else wrong with your rifle no ammo is going to fix them.

If you strip down the package to its fewest parts possible and do the testing, you will actually improve your chances of finding the best ammo available.

But don't expect this new consistent ammo to fix your rifle it won't. You will still have to deal with that.

I've heard many stories about ammo that shot great at the test center but didn't shoot when you got it home. I've done this myself.

It probably has a lot to do with the limited testing we are actually doing at the test center.

Testing at the centers doesn't guarantee success, but it is your best chance of finding good ammo.

These are my thoughts, please share yours.

TKH (4628)

 

[tim]

Tony, I guess I wouldn’t disagree with anything you’ve said.
I had an appointment for Ohio, figured my best chances were to be there in person, that could not happen so plan B: after several conversations with Devan, have two barreled actions in Mesa as we speak……we’ll see.
A primary reason for me was also to test far more lots than any other option. Without belonging to a testing/buying group, buying blind is not a great long term option.
Because of my Ohio curveball, I have been promised return in two weeks and with two guns, two different barrel configurations hopefully decent chance of good selection. As I get data, I will give you any observations.
I think one of the toughest challenges is to get this done with decent lot numbers available, easier said than done.

 

[Pete Wass]

A friend

went to the Eley center a few years ago now, tested and bought a good quantity of what shot well in his rifle. When He got back to New England, the rifle didn't shoot the ammo well. As I recall, he had to move the tuner 150 clicks or so and then it shot great.

Here's what I know for sure. Elevation makes a big difference in how ammo shoots. What shoots great at say 400 ASL won't shoot the same at 1200 ASL.

 

[Butch Lambert]

Does the Ohio Lapua Center have a test feller yet and any ammo?

 

[Rimfireshooter]

Does the Ohio Lapua Center have a test feller yet and any ammo?

Butch, I hear that Luke is leaving and his last day is Jan 18th (early next week). I've been told they are shutdown, until they get a replacement for Luke, maybe by March/April. I've tried to call since I have an appointment scheduled for the end of March, to confirm that is still a valid appointment. I last tested there in early October, and they only had 5 lots of Midas+, and only one good lot for my rifle.

FYI only, not sure if anyone else has more info?

RFS99

 

[Butch Lambert]

Butch, I hear that Luke is leaving and his last day is Jan 18th (early next week). I've been told they are shutdown, until they get a replacement for Luke, maybe by March/April. I've tried to call since I have an appointment scheduled for the end of March, to confirm that is still a valid appointment. I last tested there in early October, and they only had 5 lots of Midas+, and only one good lot for my rifle.

FYI only, not sure if anyone else has more info?

RFS99

Thanks Elmer, Kinda what I heard.

 

[tim]

Was told this week, at least 2 months, and then the question about how much training/experience. Was supposed to be there 1st week of Feb.

 

[PedroS]

Testing...

Partial rig testing centres, or full rig indoors, or full rig outdoors, or, as in some world champs test centres partial rig outdoors...

I agree with Tony insights, and that's what I try to find when at Germany test center, good consistent ammo.
Issue is, you still rely on luck, because the day you'll be there could be, or not, the day of good ammo for your rifle... On top of that, SARS-COV-2 pandemics didn't, and doesn't, help the manufactures, either with shortage of suppliers goods, or with sick personnel.

Then, they clamp the action to the lathe.
What I have is special aluminum blocks done for my actions, CNC machined, instead using their blocks. Also bear in mind, when they don't have a block for a particular action, they clamp, between lead V blocks, the barrel near the action. I don't want that.

I have been on the 3 major .22lr manufactures, all in Germany, but for the last 4 years only to Lapua. All use the same process, with a "slight" difference for Lapua. In Germany is not a tunnel, but an indoors facility, so bigger air space with constant air flow provided by fans. Don't know if that's the reason, but all ammo I did choose at Germany Lapua center worked well in competition. Funny enough the groups produce in this test center are not so tight as some produced elsewhere. Wind?

Also, I have felt a shift trend across the years of Lapua testing. In my first years there, it was Center-X and Midas + the best performers, than it went to just Midas +, and lately I just pick X-Act ones. Being a sponsored shooter I don't have issues with cost, but others might have...
The group sizes were pretty consistent across the years, but height spread had slightly diminished in X-Act.

Final, being there is not an welcome passport to success, and be prepared to return empty handed too...

 

[tonykharper]

Testing...

Partial rig testing centres, or full rig indoors, or full rig outdoors, or, as in some world champs test centres partial rig outdoors...

I agree with Tony insights, and that's what I try to find when at Germany test center, good consistent ammo.
Issue is, you still rely on luck, because the day you'll be there could be, or not, the day of good ammo for your rifle... On top of that, SARS-COV-2 pandemics didn't, and doesn't, help the manufactures, either with shortage of suppliers goods, or with sick personnel.

Then, they clamp the action to the lathe.
What I have is special aluminum blocks done for my actions, CNC machined, instead using their blocks. Also bear in mind, when they don't have a block for a particular action, they clamp, between lead V blocks, the barrel near the action. I don't want that.

I have been on the 3 major .22lr manufactures, all in Germany, but for the last 4 years only to Lapua. All use the same process, with a "slight" difference for Lapua. In Germany is not a tunnel, but an indoors facility, so bigger air space with constant air flow provided by fans. Don't know if that's the reason, but all ammo I did choose at Germany Lapua center worked well in competition. Funny enough the groups produce in this test center are not so tight as some produced elsewhere. Wind?

Also, I have felt a shift trend across the years of Lapua testing. In my first years there, it was Center-X and Midas + the best performers, than it went to just Midas +, and lately I just pick X-Act ones. Being a sponsored shooter I don't have issues with cost, but others might have...
The group sizes were pretty consistent across the years, but height spread had slightly diminished in X-Act.

Final, being there is not an welcome passport to success, and be prepared to return empty handed too...

Pedro,

Thank you for sharing your insight into the testing centers. We rarely get any info about testing in Europe.

Only a very few lots of Xact ever make it over here. I've shot maybe four lots of Xact in all the years I've been shooting.

If more were available, I'm sure it would sell. The cost is a factor, and perhaps many can't afford to compete with Xact on a regular basis.

But many times, you need the best ammo you can get to build/tune a new rifle.

Please share your experiences about anything RFBR with us on this forum. We can only gain from a wider viewpoint.

TKH (4628)

 

[analretentive]

X-Act

I did not realize that X-Act was so scarce in the US. Is it because of lack of sales due to the expense?

I purchased a couple bricks of two different lots of X-Act over a year ago from Good Shooting. They both outperformed everything else I tested with at home, and outperformed the best lot of Midas tested at Mesa. I was really looking forward to X-Act results from Mesa, but they only had one lot and it did not perform that well.

I've got enough of the X-Act left for one match, and then I'm out. I should have bought a case of the Midas.

Gerry

 

[jim1K]

Sad to hear that the test site is closing down and Luke is moving on. Had a good test with a lot of different lots. I have a different out look on what will happen when the gun goes back in the stock and is shot off the bench. A proven fact that a rifle will shoot better than it does in a jig with the same lot of ammo. It dates back to the M14's that were test in a tunnel with same lot of ammo a man could shoot smaller groups.... Jim

 

[analretentive]

Test center

Pedros,

The reason I asked you so many questions on the other forum (I am peterpan over there) was the blurb I read from Lapua regarding their testing facilty in Norway. I would really like to see something like that here.

Gerry


"The true professional Roy Skogly will not only find you the best gun-ammo combination, but also tune your rifle to top notch condition.

The Lapua .22 Service Center has a 50m and 15m shooting range, completely equipped with digital measurement and several kinds of benches. This enables the shooter to exactly match the ammunition and the weapons for best possible results.

Test shooting in cold chamber
The Røyken cooling chamber with temperatures down to minus 25 degrees Celsius is the perfect option for biathlonists to test their equipment and ammunition in a cool environment."

 

[kevinnevius]

Sad to hear that the test site is closing down and Luke is moving on. Had a good test with a lot of different lots. I have a different out look on what will happen when the gun goes back in the stock and is shot off the bench. A proven fact that a rifle will shoot better than it does in a jig with the same lot of ammo. It dates back to the M14's that were test in a tunnel with same lot of ammo a man could shoot smaller groups.... Jim

Hi Jim:

Just to clarify, the Cardinal Center Lapua facility is not closing. A search is under way for Luke's replacement, and it will be back in service in no time.

I wish Luke the best, he did an exceptional job and I know he will be successful wherever he goes!

All the best,

kev

 

[jim1K]

Hi Jim:

Just to clarify, the Cardinal Center Lapua facility is not closing. A search is under way for Luke's replacement, and it will be back in service in no time.

I wish Luke the best, he did an exceptional job and I know he will be successful wherever he goes!

All the best,

kev

Kev, Good to hear, that is the best thing I ever done, saves a ton of guess work to be able to test all the lot and be able to buy what worked best...... Jim

 

[Evelio]

Hi Jim:

Just to clarify, the Cardinal Center Lapua facility is not closing. A search is under way for Luke's replacement, and it will be back in service in no time.

I wish Luke the best, he did an exceptional job and I know he will be successful wherever he goes!

All the best,

kev

I don't blame Luke for quitting that job, I have been at the Mesa test center, and it is the most boring job that I can think of. Once you mount the rifle in the fixture, all you do from then on, is open bolt, load round, close bolt, pull trigger, and look at the computer screen. You do this most of the time over 200 rounds per rifle in about 2 hours, and the bad part is that sometimes you don't find a good lot. Most boring job I ever seen.
Same thing with the KSS Eley test center.
I don't see how they can keep the same person employed for a long time doing the same simple thing every day over and over. If they had two or three guys taking turns every couple of days, it may work.
Evelio.

 

[PedroS]

I don't blame Luke for quitting that job, I have been at the Mesa test center, and it is the most boring job that I can think of. Once you mount the rifle in the fixture, all you do from then on, is open bolt, load round, close bolt, pull trigger, and look at the computer screen. You do this most of the time over 200 rounds per rifle in about 2 hours, and the bad part is that sometimes you don't find a good lot. Most boring job I ever seen.
Same thing with the KSS Eley test center.
I don't see how they can keep the same person employed for a long time doing the same simple thing every day over and over. If they had two or three guys taking turns every couple of days, it may work.
Evelio.

Maybe they don't offer other competences during the day.
Here, in Europe, all range test officers are the same for at least 6 years.
Don't remember at Eley, but RWS and Lapua only test during the morning. So, officers should have different roles after lunch.

Forgot to say, at Eley and RWS it's the shooter that operates the rifle, after a quick training on the procedures. Not at Lapua, though.

 

[Eidolon]

Sad to hear that the test site is closing down and Luke is moving on. Had a good test with a lot of different lots. I have a different out look on what will happen when the gun goes back in the stock and is shot off the bench. A proven fact that a rifle will shoot better than it does in a jig with the same lot of ammo. It dates back to the M14's that were test in a tunnel with same lot of ammo a man could shoot smaller groups.... Jim

Lapua’s Marango test site is NOT closing. Albeit no testing can occur until Luke is replaced.
Bet Capstone interviews a few people next week.

 

[tim]

Maybe they don't offer other competences during the day.
Here, in Europe, all range test officers are the same for at least 6 years.
Don't remember at Eley, but RWS and Lapua only test during the morning. So, officers should have different roles after lunch.

Forgot to say, at Eley and RWS it's the shooter that operates the rifle, after a quick training on the procedures. Not at Lapua, though.

Pedro,
They schedule two full tests a day AM & PM so it is pretty much full day with some customer service thrown in, usually all day Fridays.
I get the impression, here, the facilities might be a bit more modest operations.