Technical series?

edgerat

New member
Are there enough folks left on this board to get a series of technical articles going like on the other forum? I asked Jerry if he would be willing to come over here and do that but, I hadn't heard from him yet. I am really new to rimfire benchrest and eager to learn as much as I can from the guys who have been doing this a long time and have been successful at it. I managed to score a great gun from Thee Gordon Eck and he has been very gracious in de-bunking lots of keyboard gunsmith hype about tuning and other things. I don't want to become too tedious and wear out my welcome with him though. I would appreciate any feedback on the idea as well, if folks want to play their cards close to their chest I can appreciate that.
Thanks!
Friend Isaac
 
Hi Edgerat, how about you starting us out by letting us know what Gordon Eck had to relay to you per.....

I managed to score a great gun from Thee Gordon Eck and he has been very gracious in de-bunking lots of keyboard gunsmith hype about tuning and other things.

thanks

Bolero
 
Are there enough folks left on this board to get a series of technical articles going like on the other forum? I asked Jerry if he would be willing to come over here and do that but, I hadn't heard from him yet.
Thanks!
Friend Isaac


Be nice if Jerry did as they wont get deleted here .........
 
Hi Edgerat, how about you starting us out by letting us know what Gordon Eck had to relay to you per.....

I managed to score a great gun from Thee Gordon Eck and he has been very gracious in de-bunking lots of keyboard gunsmith hype about tuning and other things.

thanks

Bolero

I don't want to speak for him. I will just say that I am very comfortable knowing that my gun has a straight contour barrel with a standard Harrel's tuner on it and that it is cut-rifled ;)
 
You don't need Eck or any gunsmith to tell you a gun is good. Most will support their own work. All you have to do is shoot it. What do you usually score?
 
I smell inner city wet market yellow fin. Bad to begin with and this is almost rotten.
 
oh.......you need to eat more fish and Yellow Fin is good

One day you might grow up
 
Inner city wet market Yellow Fin is the lowest of the low. Sushi quality Yellow Fin is good. But you would not have the sophistication to know that. So, keep it mind in case you ever travel.
 
Inner city wet market Yellow Fin is the lowest of the low. Sushi quality Yellow Fin is good. But you would not have the sophistication to know that. So, keep it mind in case you ever travel.

Wally your killing me ..........
 
Okay, whatever. I was talking to edgerat anyway and nobody needs a gunsmith to tell them whether a gun will shoot. Any gunsmith is going to say his work is good. What are the scores?
 
I am not saying I need a gunsmith to tell me whether my rifle is up to snuff. I really enjoy the technical aspects of this sport and I am hoping that the folks over here would be more willing to answer questions about their findings than Bill Calfee.
 
You know Edgerat, your post about asking the gunsmith about the gun hit me as odd, that's the only reason I responded. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Your proposal is an interesting one, not likely to get off the ground. I'll give you an example. I worked for a time for Greenbushes Mine in Western Australia before moving back to the states. My profession is geologist, and I guess I didn't really fit in with the miners. But there ain't a lot to do at an Australian mine unless you drink, and I don't. But I watched. What I noticed was this. There are those who need no inebriation to be a legend in their own mind but most do. As the drinking got harder the stories got bigger from normally quite people. Most of the time it was fun to watch but sometimes violent. So, I think you're faced with the same thing. I read this forum, Rimfire Accuracy, Rimfire Central and sometimes Smallbore Accuracy. You've got a few self proclaimed legends on each of these forums and the biggest one is probably on Rimfire Accuracy but could be Smallbore Accuracy; hard to tell really. Rimfire Central has a couple but they just don't rival these two. This forum has one for sure but not as a shooter.

Now self legends love to talk about themselves and they do, you've seen that. It don't bother me but it bothers some people. But others need that kick and if you could somehow get some alcohol into these other gunsmiths and get them in front of a keyboard, you would have some conversations. Because they all got big egos.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. Think I'll go to Rimfire Central and leave you alone.

Get some Tequilla, don't eat bad Tuna and Good Luck.
 
Okay, whatever. I was talking to edgerat anyway and nobody needs a gunsmith to tell them whether a gun will shoot. Any gunsmith is going to say his work is good. What are the scores?

This folks is why guys like Gordon won't post here any longer.....nothing to add in the way of usable information but plenty of unmitigated BS.
 
Okay, now that we got that sorted. Anyone want to wade in?

All right, lets get right to the $64,000 question. I know why the cut rifled bbl guys think they're best. I know the grand wizard over @ Wallyworld teased everybody with the whys and whynots of buttonrifled domanance without ever a final answer, if better/why better without the "everybody uses them" default answer. If better, and that's a big if, I have a suspecion as to one issue which I will post but I'm quite interested in opinions, but guys lets try and not go off the rails, the longer this goes on being an adult "thinking out loud" quality topic, the greater the chance good people opine.
 
I don't think the new cut rifle barrels have been out long enough to judge them...... But if you pay royalties you can get the answers.

Jim
 
I don't fully understand the way it was explained to me. I know that Rock Creek is doing a great job on their lapping process. Again, as I understand it, if you have someone who knows how to lap a bore, you can take a mediocre barrel and make it a winner. One thing that intrigues me about the two process' as well is the heat treating. Paul@Rock Creek made mention of the number of heat-treatings the button-rifled barrel has to go through and that the cut barrels go through less. Would that not make the cut-rifled barrels harder? I have just a tiny understanding of the process that steel goes through.
 
I don't fully understand the way it was explained to me. I know that Rock Creek is doing a great job on their lapping process. Again, as I understand it, if you have someone who knows how to lap a bore, you can take a mediocre barrel and make it a winner. One thing that intrigues me about the two process' as well is the heat treating. Paul@Rock Creek made mention of the number of heat-treatings the button-rifled barrel has to go through and that the cut barrels go through less. Would that not make the cut-rifled barrels harder? I have just a tiny understanding of the process that steel goes through.

And some smith's like Gordon can lap barrels to their liking.
 
I don't fully understand the way it was explained to me. I know that Rock Creek is doing a great job on their lapping process. Again, as I understand it, if you have someone who knows how to lap a bore, you can take a mediocre barrel and make it a winner. One thing that intrigues me about the two process' as well is the heat treating. Paul@Rock Creek made mention of the number of heat-treatings the button-rifled barrel has to go through and that the cut barrels go through less. Would that not make the cut-rifled barrels harder? I have just a tiny understanding of the process that steel goes through.


First off as to the lapping, not true, there's only so much lap you can put in a barrel before you get diminshing returns. A barrel maker will tell you the same. You can't make up for good internal dimension which is likely the forte of the cut rifled CNC boys as often as not.

The interior of the cut rifled barrels is, in fact not harder to the best of my knowledge. Now remember, there's a pantload full of variables such as steel type, hole/reamer size, etc. but There is some thought that when that button goes through it actually leaves the interior a bit harder even after stress relief and why/what that does to performance I do not exactly know but I suspect this is one area that our favorite "hillbilly" was alluding to. I will tell you that among the many great conversations I had with Chet Amick who lapped everything he put on, he said there was a big difference in how the lap went but most of these folks seem to finish in the 300-400 grit range and he finished with 1000 grit that is unavailable commercially.
 
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