Technical Series: Tuning
- Thread starter edgerat
- Start date
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fishbone
Guest
What distance were you shooting, Fred?
I've been lurking and following with interest tuning methods for years, even tried it myself (although not being a BR shooter). What I've never seen so far and am very interested in seeing is a validation of the method.
Let's take Fred's example he so graciously provided. I would like to see a follow up card with all groups shot at his best setting and another card with all groups at a not so good setting. Average the cards results and see if his best setting wasn't a fluke small group as to be expected from a series of such small sample sizes. Worded differently, what is telling us that what we are seeing is not 'noise' we would get anyway from that particular lot of ammo?
I believe tuners work, I just don't believe in the methodology. My rifles went several times to ammo factories (Eley, Lapua) to select batches of ammo but I am still not completely satisfied with the info provided for decision making. For those selected lots I cannot improve upon through the tuning I did, which simply might be from my own shortcomings (lack of benchrest skills).
The above is not to be interpreted as negative as I am genuinely interested in seeing some evidence to the contrary.
Best,
Gale Stewart
Quebec City, QC
Canada
Let's take Fred's example he so graciously provided. I would like to see a follow up card with all groups shot at his best setting and another card with all groups at a not so good setting. Average the cards results and see if his best setting wasn't a fluke small group as to be expected from a series of such small sample sizes. Worded differently, what is telling us that what we are seeing is not 'noise' we would get anyway from that particular lot of ammo?
I believe tuners work, I just don't believe in the methodology. My rifles went several times to ammo factories (Eley, Lapua) to select batches of ammo but I am still not completely satisfied with the info provided for decision making. For those selected lots I cannot improve upon through the tuning I did, which simply might be from my own shortcomings (lack of benchrest skills).
The above is not to be interpreted as negative as I am genuinely interested in seeing some evidence to the contrary.
Best,
Gale Stewart
Quebec City, QC
Canada
Last edited:
Mike:
I shot one round of each speed (lot ), at each tuner setting. After it was all over, I went back to each of the best group setting to see if they would duplicate. One did, the others did not. We'll see if I made the correct choice at our next match.
fishbone: 50 yards.
I shot one round of each speed (lot ), at each tuner setting. After it was all over, I went back to each of the best group setting to see if they would duplicate. One did, the others did not. We'll see if I made the correct choice at our next match.
fishbone: 50 yards.
Gale:
I'll try and shoot some groups at the next practice. My problem is time. I depend on someone all the time to take me to and from the range. When their bell rings. I have to pack up and go home. I will only have time to shoot one card before our match, so I won't have time to do all you ask, gotta be ready for some seroius shooting. If I win the match or several of the targets, I will consider the tuner setting as the best I could have selected. The other problem I may have, is ammo. I am very limited to the number of lots after all the testing yesterday. My method may not work for every barrel, but I was happy with the way it went.
I'll try and shoot some groups at the next practice. My problem is time. I depend on someone all the time to take me to and from the range. When their bell rings. I have to pack up and go home. I will only have time to shoot one card before our match, so I won't have time to do all you ask, gotta be ready for some seroius shooting. If I win the match or several of the targets, I will consider the tuner setting as the best I could have selected. The other problem I may have, is ammo. I am very limited to the number of lots after all the testing yesterday. My method may not work for every barrel, but I was happy with the way it went.
Fred,
I appreciate the time and efforts you put into this. You seem to have a good rifle as I would have expected to see many vertical stringing groups from such a spread of velocities. Then again we can't take these labeled velocities at face value, just as an indication. The fact that there is no noticeable stringing tells me that the velocity spread isn't so great as you think in your 'mix and match' groups. Removing vertical through positive compensation is a major contributor to the tuning effect and there is no magic about this, it is governed by the laws of physics. Removal of the horizontal component (and wind bucking ability) is the part which has yet to be explained.
All the best and keep on testing,
Gale Stewart
Quebec City, QC
Canada
I appreciate the time and efforts you put into this. You seem to have a good rifle as I would have expected to see many vertical stringing groups from such a spread of velocities. Then again we can't take these labeled velocities at face value, just as an indication. The fact that there is no noticeable stringing tells me that the velocity spread isn't so great as you think in your 'mix and match' groups. Removing vertical through positive compensation is a major contributor to the tuning effect and there is no magic about this, it is governed by the laws of physics. Removal of the horizontal component (and wind bucking ability) is the part which has yet to be explained.
All the best and keep on testing,
Gale Stewart
Quebec City, QC
Canada
Gale: My Chronograph was not working, so I really couldn't confirm the velocity. I do know, that with a bare barrel, there was considerable vertical. When I had previuosly tested these lots, they all group well, just in different locations on the target. Whether this method would work on junk ammo, that's the 1K$ ?
Let me add one more photo. I did shoot an ARA target, not for score or group, but to see what each lot I had tested with earlier (when the wind was very light) would do in the higher speed wind conditions. I have indicated the wind direction with a little arrow. I have also put a ? mark by those shots that are unexplainable. I shot each column with the same lot. I shot from top to bottom. The lots I shot on this target were the the four I did the tuner test with as well one lot of Tenex @ column 5 (21-25). The three groups as indicated on the sighter's, were an older lot of Lapua Multi-Match and two different lots of the new Lapua Center X. The POA, was the center Dot on every Bull. Does this tell me anything. Yes, the one Eley Match Lot 4071 was the most wind resistant that day. Good thing I have enough to shoot at my next match.
