Team USA Reminder

Palmetto Worlds

Tanks are being secured for the match. Air compressor is probably out of the question , as it is too expensive to buy and a cheap one will take 25 min to fill one tank. No, a house type car tire compressor will not work, dirty oily air and not enough pressure, it only works on 125 psi and we need 3000 psi out of 4 stage compressor. The competitors that are flying in will not be bringing tanks, cost and weight too much. The ones driving in , i have asked them to bring a full tank and a spare if they have it to the match. I will be getting tanks brought to the range for practice and competition. if any one needs to shoot 15 or 20 targets to practice i would suggest they stay home and practice and go to the next world shoot. Does anyone who reads this have a DIN tank? if you do you will need a DIN universal adapter to convert it to yoke tank because that is what is available in the US. Also you will need an adapter for your rifle as they are also different. but it must work with yoke tanks. The question i want to know is , how many fills of a 3000 psi tank can a shooter get with a 12 and a 20 lb gun? also I havent found any supply for the 4500 psi tanks, so it you bring one you will have to figure out how to fill it. the match director will furnish air as per rules. Also, air rifle competitors please bring a tent if you have one, like the rimfire and centerfire shooters use, pop up with a top and no sides. Be ready to share flags and stools for other competitors from across the pond. any more questions?
 
Craig,

I'll be checking with the shop mentioned above and will report my findings here. I know the dive shop up here that I use claims to only be able to fill to 3500 psi max, but if done right can bring mine up pretty close to 4500 psi. It usually means dropping the tank off for a few hours, but that should be no problem after all the tanks have been initially filled on Thursday or Friday.

As I said earlier, the big deal is the initial fill as that will require a lot of air to bring those tanks up to pressure for that first fill after flying in. Once that's done, I'll bet one 88 cu. ft. tank with 4500 psi will be able to service 4, or maybe even 5 shooters, including ones self, (24 to 30 targets, half being 12 ft/lb and half being 20 ft/lb) for the weekend.

Dave
 
Air

I do not know how it works down south but in the N.E. most fire companies , big and small, use portable air tanks that they take in there trucks . They are large and filed too 4500 + lb. They often have a bank of 2-4 tanks . They are then refueled at there stations. I do not know if fire companies could donate air for 3 days . I think you can rent from large industrial rental shops . This is used to fill there air breathers and all have din couplings , I think . I hope this helps. Rick
 
Gentlemen,
I´m not trying to teach You how to run this competition but since I am one of the shooters who will need that air maybe I am allowed to express my opinion. It would be best to have a compressor at the range. I believe they can be rented for a decent price, the same goes for a movable diesel generator (power supply). If we have air tanks to a certain amount I think they will last for each day and can then be refilled one after one during the games. All of us need to give some of our time and co-operate about these issues. We also need to figure out what kind of couplings we need to fit with various systems. Us Europeans might have totally different treads on our guns,we might need converters. And of course we will see to it that we have what is needed as long as we know what we need.
Fire companies are a good source, they have the know how, and the equipments. Hopefully it is not like in our country where they are prohibited to help people "outside house".

We could start a thread where air-rifle shooters put in the technical specs about what we have right now, and what might be needed. We still have about one month of time, thats not much!!!!

Regards
Jens L
 
A good procedure to use when filling guns is to always "use up" the first tank as much as is practical before beginning to use a "fresh one". The system of "cascading" does this with fancy plumbing and valving but simply switching from one to the next the old-fashioned way will also make much more efficient use of remaining pressure. A tank used down to even 1500psi will fill may guns to around the halfway mark or more, where they can be then topped up with "fresher" tanks. When I do lot of tuning and shooting with guns that need higher pressure, which to me is any over 1500 psi, I generally use up to three different air tanks, (going as low as 1000psi on one before giving up on it) since tuning often requires exhausting the air to zero, and I don't like to waste air pressure. Yes, I DO own a high pressure compressor to compliment the five tanks I own, but I use it sparingly, usually on days of lower humidity, and though its rated for up to 4500psi, I usually top my CF tanks to only 3400psi.

In the USA, I'd say that over half the guns I see nowadays fill from a standard "Foster" fitting, and its a good idea for someone needing to borrow air here is to have an adapter on their fitting that has a male "Foster" on it. Another common fitting used on several UK guns looks like a huge Foster ... a "Parker" I think?, anyhow, if one were to have a male of both type ready to adapt to whatever HIS gun needs, he could get air from about anybody else's rig.

Because my guns only need 1500psi, I can use ones drained down a lot and still be ok. We will be bringing a few tanks, and can share some. I think we should share with the Foriegn travelers first, since those more local are better equipped to fend.
 
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Check out these guys for filling tanks could likely handle a lot of the requirement if given proper notice.

International Diving Institute
(843) 821-0001
206 E 5th North St
Summerville, South Carolina 29483

Hit up Joe Brancoto on the Yellow and get a few firehouse tank adaptors?

Filling calculator at http://www.airgunexpo.com/calc/calc_fill.cfm?
 
Quality vrs Quantity!
If I understand it right a simple Cascade System could serve the needs!
Forget Nitrogen, Oxygen or Acetylene that welding houses have because that will not work.
Ok back to Quantity & Quality – The first couple tanks in a cascade system will fill up most of the air required than the last is only used to get the pressure you require.
First Quantity then Quality!

My (Limited) understanding is if the US competitors only brought 6 tanks and set up two filling stations using the cascade principle that could supply all the air needed if it was managed correctly.
I said two stations because of the demand and time available. No one wants to stand in line for 2 hours to top off their air rifle.

I am just a Dumb Rimfire Shooter concerned about all aspect of the World Match!
 
For sure I personally would prefer to use nitrogen, it being clean and dry, though it being ever so slightly "thinner" than air, it does flow a little faster. Many pro paintball guys use it instead of air for the added reliability.
 
The cascading system is the best idea. I have one here with three of the large heavy 4,500# tanks. We top off folks tanks at events. I would think that a local scuba shop could set up a couple cascading stations on a rental basis. For sure, someone who knows what they are doing should fill tanks for folks at the stations.. Cause if one opens all three of the cascading tanks on the system.. they equalize and you lose your "top off" high pressure tank. You must close the lower pressure tanks before you open the next higher pressure.

Like LD says, the USFT crowd only needs a fill of 1,500 tops.. so the lowest pressure tanks will fill all those competitors tanks ... if we plan things right the air could go a lot farther.

Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
 
Air

Wayne is right on with this . From fire company or rental this could happen .
 
You might check at the local OXG/ACY dealer and see if they have something that you could use. They might even furnish it for free if you let them hang a banner.
I know that they have compressed for cutting and welding. Also check with the local fire department to see if they have a compressor. Mine has one that goes to 6500psi. They fill my tank for free.
Good luck to all the USA team shooters.
Larry
 
Larry,

Compressed Oxygen is whats generally used for cutting and welding, not "regular air". Oxygen is perhaps the worst thing to try, due to fire danger.
 
LD
I'm well aware of what oxygen will do. I'm talking about tanks of compressed AIR that is used with plasma cutting. the bottles come in the same size as oxygen bottles. You would have to use a regulator to fill a tank because it is a 6000psi bottle. It was just a thought.
Larry
 
Larry,

Are you bringing any tanks of those sort of tanks (as used for welding)? I'm a bit curious what sort of fitting up would be required for filling guns from em, plus I'm now wondering if I should be considering obtaining one for myself instead of relying on common breathing tanks.

BTW, all the plasma cutting I've seen and done was using a normal shop air compressor, but I assume the air tanks are used for remote jobs.
 
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LD
Due to a bad heart condition I won't be traveling to the world shoot as bad as I want to. You might go to a oxy/acy dealer and check with them. I work as a millwright/welder/pipefitter for 25 years and yes we used these compressed air tanks with portable plasma cutters. My local dealer didn't fill scuba tanks so I didn't go any further with that idea after I found out my local fire department told me they would fill my tank. I think that all a person would have to do is get a compressed air regulator and adapt it down to what size he need.

I have offered my tank to Frank Tirrell if he wants to tote it out to the match but someone loaned him a carbon fiber tank.

The most important thing I like about my USFT is the low operating pressure.

Also LD is your 12fpe gun a usft or do you shooot something else.

Good Luck
Larry B
 
I shoot a USFT rifle in both classes. Its not easy to tune one for the low power class, and to my knowledge, nobody I know has been able to tune one to under 12fpe and obtain really decent performance in matches, but its a point of stubborness with me, and I really wouldnt feel right having to give up and shoot some other sort of gun, or resort to using one someone else had to tune, just be be competitive.

I know there are LOTS of other sub-12fpe gns that shoot really well, but I just prefer shooting a gun I designed myself.
 
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