Supreme Court - 5-4 In Favor of Individuals

It is more troubling that:

"...Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons." He said such evidence "is nowhere to be found." ..."

The first 10 amendments were written exactly to limit the actions of the government. I find it very troubling a supreme court justice doesn't recognize this.

Is there any place in the constitution were the government is endowed with a "right"? The government has responisibilities but no rights.

Regards, Ron
 
So Justice John Paul Stevens, reflecting the opinion of the bare minority, finds it hard to believe that the Framers would make a choice to limit the powers of government??????????!!!!!!!!!!

The entire Bill of Rights is meant to be an enumeration of individual rights an a limitation of governmental power.

Four of the nine believe this? My God, we are lost.
 
It's patently obvious that the people who don't understand the four dissenters in today's Supreme Court decision never went to law school, but learned to read English. That means that we suffer from the disabilities known as common sense, and understanding. We obviously don't understand that the government should run our lives because elected and appointed officials and bureaucrats are ever so much smarter than the rest of us.

The only hope for us is that the American's With Disabilities Act may some day apply to us. Or that we get a Supreme Court that doesn't care what the EU, Canada, Mexico, or anyone else thinks except for the Constitution's authors. I was always taught that was the job of the Supremes, not making up new laws, inventing new rights, or amending the Constitution to suit their feelings. Obvously not a lot of thought involved in the dissent today. :eek:
 
A good day

This was a good day for us. This is a concrete step down the road to an 75 year old question. Thank you NRA for all of your help.
This calls for a beer

OT
 
Illinois and DC and California

This one is for all the liberals in Illinois and DC that have denied second amendment rights to all of those people for all those years.
YOU LOOSE

For all those people that they subjected to crime without any means of self defense.

For all the third shift people working at a quick mart in the bad part of town

For all the people that worked at a firearms manufacturer and lost their job

For all the single mothers in bad parts of town, who wonder how they are going to keep their children safe when the boogey man comes knocking.

WE WIN
 
OldTimer

It's great for everyone that our high court has the cajones to finally set things straight. Their ruling does NOT give the third shift people the right to CARRY a firearm, or the single mothers in the bad parts of town the right to shoot someone. Have you ever shot someone in self defense?
This is what happens: You are read your rights, you are charged with assault with a deadly weapon, maybe murder, you are booked into your local jail, you have to retain an attorney and defend your actions. You might even be charged with discharging a firearm in the city limits (depending upon how the powers that be feel). If you happen to win this one after the tens of thousands of dollars you pay in attorneys fees, the Federal laws may apply also.
 
Working in a bad hood

RStiefel

Have you ever had someone come in to your place of business and demand money?

Have you ever driven on vacation and got lost and had people curse at you because your car was nice and tell you to unlock your doors. With your children in the back seat sleeping??

How about come home and find that you have been robbed and wonder if the criminal is still there.

Well now everyone that has, has had there second amendment verified. If you want to live in a police state its fine with me, but it wont be my state.

I will take my chances with whatever laws come my way, but right now I am happy that we all can defend our families. Have a nice day!

DONE - OT
 
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No OldTimer

but my son had to shoot someone in 1999 in one of the most gun friendly states in our country, Arizona. Having said that, I have first hand knowledge about what happens. At no time did I say one should not have the right to defend ones self or family, nor did I say anything about living in a police state.
The justices said we have the right to own handguns, they also said it does NOT give us the right to carry one. That is a right given by each individual state. I happen to live in the the state with the toughest laws. Keep in mind that no matter what your state may say, Federal law will always prevail.
 
Remember the 4 would take your Rights away!!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot emphasize enough that the 4 ney sayers are willing to abolish our Constitutional Rights. We must remember this and use it in the Presidential election to tell all why a dem liberal president is DANGEROUS to us!!!

best, nrb
 
2 of the nay sayers

are Republicans. Not all Republicans vote the same way just as not all Democrats vote the same way.
 
It's great for everyone that our high court has the cajones to finally set things straight. Their ruling does NOT give the third shift people the right to CARRY a firearm, or the single mothers in the bad parts of town the right to shoot someone. Have you ever shot someone in self defense?
This is what happens: You are read your rights, you are charged with assault with a deadly weapon, maybe murder, you are booked into your local jail, you have to retain an attorney and defend your actions. You might even be charged with discharging a firearm in the city limits (depending upon how the powers that be feel). If you happen to win this one after the tens of thousands of dollars you pay in attorneys fees, the Federal laws may apply also.

RStiefel, that is not what happens.

I worked a case where a homeowner shot one of the five bangers who entered his house threatening to kill him, his son, the rest of the family, etc. The banger was armed with...no bs...a beer can. He wasn't read his rights, booked into county jail, charged with anything, didn't have to hire an attorney, etc. The only real law enforcement intrusion he had to put up with was me and my co-horts in his house, 24 hours a day, for 4-5 days, armed to the teeth. He was staying up all night, guarding his castle and not sleeping much. We thought he could use some rest. He didn't seem to mind our presence. He did have to show up in court to testify against the banger he shot, though. The banger ended up going to prison for 5 or so years for home invasion (minus about two inches of femur due to a 30-30 slug...and yes, it was a Winchester 94).

Every case is different, every case is unique. There are about a zillion factors that can come into play in lethal force incindent. Two of the biggest are reasonableness, i.e., what would a "reasonable person do/think", and state of mind. I could go on for a while with all this, but I won't. But suffice to say, your doomsdayish prophecy, "this is what will happen" post is incorrect.

Justin
 
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Don't Tread on me

What this all boils down to is people trying to force their beliefs on to other people. In this particular case the highest court in the land that we live in has said that the individual American has the right to possess a firearm for lawful use such as self defense.

I dont care what anyone says, you threaten my family or my self so that you jeopardize my ability to provide for them there may be consequences because

THE SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANTEES ME THE RIGHT TO OWN A FIREARM !

6/26/2008 CASE CLOSED
 
I THINK YOU ARE MISSING THE REAL PICTURE.
i have a personal responsibility to protect myself, my family, my property....etc.
i do not need anyones permission to do this.

the framers of our constitution knew this and put it in print.

9 out of 9 of the justices know this, 4 know it but have private protection, so chose a political answer instead.


its amazing to me the number of gun owning nay sayers still own guns ???
if life is so bad and there is no chance to succeed...why are you here ?
 
The important thing to remember is that this ruling does not apply to STATE laws. The District of Columbia is part of the federal government and the 2nd applies in DC.

I may be wrong on this,but until a court holds that the 2nd is applicable against a State. Cities and states outside of DC/national parks/military bases, etc., are free to do what they wish in terms of regulation. What this ruling does is,open the doors for citizens to challenge individual States regulations that fall within the scope of the SC ruling.


Glenn

glenn...you got this all wrong.......the constitution, the bill of rights apply to all free citizens, has nothing to do with which state they live in......
it is not about WHERE, ITS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.....everywhere.

states are the true authority within the us of a( not the fed govmnt). they may create and apply rules in thier states, but they cannot conflict with the constitution, nor the bill of rights......which is why the sc heard this case.

mike in co
 
shuda been a clean sweep!!!

I'd feel much better if the Supreme Court's vote was unamious in our favor, but it was nice to see my money at work thru the NRA, though still can't figure out why they even sent that "Teddy Roosevelt" folding knife .... :confused:
 
Now, the 2 nd amendment reads "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That is all it means. Good case for using the fewest words when there is a choice. The stuff about the militia was just put in to confuse the confused.

Concho Bill

Actually the stuff about the militia had a very significant purpose. At the time the Constitution was written militia had a very different meaning than we commonly assume today.

The Militia Act of 1792, written, for the most part, by the same guys that wrote the 2nd amendment, defined militia as consisting of ALL able bodied free males over the age of 18.

The men of America were expected to be ready to defend not only hearth and home but the community, state and nation, and to generally provide there own arms to do so.

-Mike-
 
most of the FOR were republican appointee's and most of the AGAINST were democrat appointee's................imagine that!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Do we really want Osama appointing judges??? The "BLACK DEMOCRATIC" mayor of Washington has stated on the news that he was against the ruling and have already thrown a lot of paper work out there to slow the process down!!

Phil,

I'm trying very hard to read your posts and believe you can't possible be like your posts. I'm not sure you needed to call the mayor of D.C. the "BLACK DEMOCRATIC" mayor????? I know you dislike Democrats, but why put BLACK in caps also?? Come on Phil!!


The function of SCOTUS is to do just what it did. Some managed to miss the whole point of the decision. It simply said that "unreasonable regulation" is unconstitutional and attacks the citizen's right to keep and bear arms! Good!

The decision simply did what I predicted. It struck down D.C.'s sweeping, unreasonable ban on guns as it should have, but it did not say that no regulation about gun ownership could exist. It just put the country on notice that "unreasonable regulation" like in D.C. is unconstitutional. Good for them!!

(NOTE WHAT THE DISSENTING OPINION HELD BELOW)

Yet the lead dissent, by Justice John Paul Stevens, did not dispute that the Second Amendment protects an individual right. Rather, he wrote, the question was the "scope of that right," which protected militia service but left additional regulation to the judgment of the legislature. The Second Amendment's drafting history revealed the founders' "concern about the potential threat to state sovereignty that a federal standing army would pose," something that could be checked by state militias, he wrote, joined by Justices David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer.

Scalia does not even believe all gun regulation is unconstitutional.

In a footnote, Justice Scalia noted that the issue known as "incorporation" -- whether federal rights also are binding on state governments -- wasn't before the court, and observed that prior cases "reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government." In a 1997 book, he suggested views even more ominous for gun enthusiasts, writing that "properly understood, [the amendment] is no limitation upon arms control by the states."

My reading of the decision is that the (1.) 2nd Amendment rights apply to individual citizens which the dissenting opinion did not oppose (no change since 1939 decision), and (2.) gun regulation must be "reasonable" or it is unconstitutional. In effect the ruling said that D.C. and like political areas cannot make unreasonable, sweeping anti gun laws which is great news! Don't expect all gun regulation to disappear!

The historical (hysterical) argument:

The main argument has always been as to whether the Founding Fathers referred to the "keeping and bearing of arms" (1.) as including cannon, armories, all weapons of war needed by the militia to protect itself from the newly formed Federal Standing Army, or (2.) It meant to protect the average farmer's right to keep personal arms for hunting and self defense against Indians, etc.

Who could possible believe the Founding Fathers could have even considered that the Federal Government would try to take away hunting rifles in the 1780's? A ridiculous, but a convenient interpretation today! Remember that even at the writing of the 2nd Amendment there were restrictions as to where a firearm could be kept and born. If a group of men had entered the area where the Constitution was being debated with pistols under their coats do you believe that the Founding Fathers would have said, "No problem, that is their right!" Not a chance!
 
Well then if that is Scalia understanding about the Bill of Rights only apply to the Federal Government. THEN HE IS 100% CORRECT! In Fact please everyone take note. This is a D.C. case, Washington D.C. is Federal territory, the ruling can only apply to Federal Territory. In fact all Federal Law only applies to the Territories. My Goodness Mr. D, you have stumbled across what I have been telling people for many years.

You must look to your own State Constitutions for relief. Of course many people have come to believe that we the people are bound by laws written for state government. Many people think that's what being a free people mean, being bound to a piece of paper meant to run a state of federal government. How sad that so many Americans are ignorant of what being free means.
 
You might have misunderstood my layman description of the SC ruling,and its impact.

Mr D and Big AL got it right. Each State decides how they want to regulate the "right to bear arms."

The new ruling opens the door for individuals to challenge their States gun rights legislature. This can be a long drawn out process and very costly.

Here is a link to what we will be seeing a lot of in the near future.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-supreme-court-gun-banjun27,0,1997533.story


well i guess we agree to disagree on each others "wording".
the constitution and the bill of rights apply to the people, reguardless of where the people live. the individual states have the authority to control how this is done within thier state, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT CONFLICT WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS.
yes we at each state must now insist that our states are not limiting our (recently re afirmed) gun rights.( i think this is where we agree).

this ruling is monumental. never, in the last 200 years, has the supreme court put in print that the wording of the 2nd ammendment means just what it says.

mike in co
 
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