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agb3542
Guest
Just a census. Is everyone still stoning new chamber reamers? Used to be SOP years ago. Was wondering if technology has changed things.
Alex in Michigan
Alex in Michigan
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Hugh Henriksen does, I don't know about any of the others but I would guess they do. After you have a honing jig or develop a technique its not a really big deal to do so.
I wouldn't recommend that just anyone try it though. A few bad strokes with the wrong hone can damage a good reamer.
I wouldn't recommend that just anyone try it though. A few bad strokes with the wrong hone can damage a good reamer.
jackie schmidt
New member
Alex
Stoning reamers is an art. If you are not well schooled in what is going on, you can do more damage than good.
I heve never seen the need to stone a reamer that I get from Dave Kiff. Maybe I am missing something.........jackie
Stoning reamers is an art. If you are not well schooled in what is going on, you can do more damage than good.
I heve never seen the need to stone a reamer that I get from Dave Kiff. Maybe I am missing something.........jackie
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agb3542
Guest
Jerry/Jackie
Appreciate your input. We used to stone all of the reamers we used years ago when we first received them. Getting back into chambering and have purchased some reamers from PTG and Manson and did not feel there was a need to stone as I was pleased with the finish as is. With the new technology in grinding machines I felt there shouldn't be a need but just wanted to know how everyone else felt about it.
Thanks
Appreciate your input. We used to stone all of the reamers we used years ago when we first received them. Getting back into chambering and have purchased some reamers from PTG and Manson and did not feel there was a need to stone as I was pleased with the finish as is. With the new technology in grinding machines I felt there shouldn't be a need but just wanted to know how everyone else felt about it.
Thanks
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
The only reason I stone reamer flutes is to remove the BUE(built up edge) that occurs after a reamer has done several chambers. I use a 1/4" triangular hard arkansas stone and place it on the top of the flute and carefully slide it back and forth along the flute root. The flute root acts as a guide to keep the hone flat on the flute top.
I still don't think amateurs should they this unless they understand cutting surface clearances. I do not stone the primary or secondary clearance surfaces. That requires a honing jig that is made especially to stone reamers.
I still don't think amateurs should they this unless they understand cutting surface clearances. I do not stone the primary or secondary clearance surfaces. That requires a honing jig that is made especially to stone reamers.
C
Crow99
Guest
Stoning
has allowed me to make great improvement in chamber surface finish and nicely touch up a couple of reamers that were on the verge of becoming a bit dull. True, your mileage may vary, but I became a believer. I purchased the stoning fixture from Greg Tannell... there's a very good instructional video featuring both Greg and Dave Kiff of PTG (he makes the fixture and Greg markets it). If you follow the instructions and at least understand the basic theory (not too complicated) it will produce outstanding results. So I would say that there is still some benefit to be gained by stoning...
has allowed me to make great improvement in chamber surface finish and nicely touch up a couple of reamers that were on the verge of becoming a bit dull. True, your mileage may vary, but I became a believer. I purchased the stoning fixture from Greg Tannell... there's a very good instructional video featuring both Greg and Dave Kiff of PTG (he makes the fixture and Greg markets it). If you follow the instructions and at least understand the basic theory (not too complicated) it will produce outstanding results. So I would say that there is still some benefit to be gained by stoning...
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Crow99
Guest
Hal: As I recall the fixture was around $450.00 delivered. Best check with Greg for current prices. Yes, this is the basic Elliot fixture with some minor changes, and is very nicely made. There is a lot of information about the Elliot fixture and reamer stoning in Guy Lautard's Machinist's Third Bedside Reader... maybe more than necessary. You should look at Greg's web site too (Gre-Tan Rifles.) I watched the video twice, set it up in accordance with instructions, and started stoning reamers. Has worked perfectly, and I don't claim to be an expert by any means.
I seem to remember that Dave in the video mentions something about keeping things simple. That has worked for me. I know in this and similar forums we like to anal- ize about things a lot. It's fun and informative I suppose, but unnecessary in this case. If you're 15 minutes off in your stoning angle, the edge will still be very clean and sharp and the reamer will still cut well. Anyone who is smart enough to set up a lathe and fit a barrel can easily do this by just following the instructions. And as I said, I've noticed a very definite improvement in my chamber finishes..
I seem to remember that Dave in the video mentions something about keeping things simple. That has worked for me. I know in this and similar forums we like to anal- ize about things a lot. It's fun and informative I suppose, but unnecessary in this case. If you're 15 minutes off in your stoning angle, the edge will still be very clean and sharp and the reamer will still cut well. Anyone who is smart enough to set up a lathe and fit a barrel can easily do this by just following the instructions. And as I said, I've noticed a very definite improvement in my chamber finishes..
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agb3542
Guest
I saw the GTR stoning fixture but there doesn't seem to be a big following these days. We made our own fixture with an indexing finger, like a mill cutter grinding fixture, and would blue the flutes (Dykem bluing) so we could see what we were taking off.
P
PPP MMM
Guest
Stoning reamers?
I've done a lot of it an aprentice toolmaker long time ago as a part of education modules. There is nothing that stoned/honed reamer will do that a split hardwood/aluminium dovel and 600-1200 grit sandpaper won't do better.
Shoot well
Peter
I've done a lot of it an aprentice toolmaker long time ago as a part of education modules. There is nothing that stoned/honed reamer will do that a split hardwood/aluminium dovel and 600-1200 grit sandpaper won't do better.
Shoot well
Peter
Bill Leeper
New member
I think the reamer would ream a chamber better. Regards, Bill
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PPP MMM
Guest
Wrong
In toolmaking terms a reamer is a "rough and inaccurate tool" and because of the physics/mechanics involved it can only cut in tolerances up to 0.012-0.008mm. in the size of the usual chamber diameter (9.52-15mm.) Hand polishing done by non imbecile toolmaker can be as three times as good with a mirror like finish.
Shoot well
Peter
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
In toolmaking terms a reamer is a "rough and inaccurate tool" and because of the physics/mechanics involved it can only cut in tolerances up to 0.012-0.008mm. in the size of the usual chamber diameter (9.52-15mm.) Hand polishing done by non imbecile toolmaker can be as three times as good with a mirror like finish.
Shoot well
Peter
J
Jkob
Guest
I have talked to Kiff and he told me that every reamer that leaves his shop is hand stoned by him; he even has what he calls his "stoning" bench.
Bill Leeper
New member
Peter,
If the best one could do with a reamer was work to a tolerance of .012", the method would have been abandoned years ago. Even .0012" (which is what I think you really meant), is way more than an accuracy gunsmith would accept. Regards, Bill
If the best one could do with a reamer was work to a tolerance of .012", the method would have been abandoned years ago. Even .0012" (which is what I think you really meant), is way more than an accuracy gunsmith would accept. Regards, Bill
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PPP MMM
Guest
Bill, it was MM
It is 0.008mm and 0.012mm (0.0003149" and 0.0004724") A plenty accurate for any chamber.
Shoot well
Peter
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It is 0.008mm and 0.012mm (0.0003149" and 0.0004724") A plenty accurate for any chamber.
Shoot well
Peter
Bill Leeper
New member
I'm sorry Peter, I misunderstood. I always try to read some English measurments in where there are none! I maintain that reamers, properly made and used, will cut better than that. I know that. When I ream a .2433 bore for a bullet seating die, it is never .2429 or .2437. A seating stem which is 2430 always goes, one which is 2435 never does. A chamber reamer which is ground to cut .470 at the base, cuts a chamber that size or there is something wrong with it or with my setup (I like to think this never happens). Not .4704. Not .4696. The finish should be good enough that polishing won't change dimension more than a couple tenths. Sadly, this is not always the case. When it isn't, the fault may be with the reamer or it may be with me.
The purpose for stoning a reamer may be to improve surface finish but it may also be to improve concentricity of the tool, alter clearance at the margin or a combination of all three. Now, you can increase clearance at the margin without altering the size of the reamer but you cannot decrease clearance without doing so. You would increase clearance to get the reamer to cut more aggressively and decrease clearance to reduce a tendency to chatter. I frequently stone reamers for various reasons and usually it works out for me. If a reamer is dull though and already cutting minimum chambers, it makes more sense to send it to the maker for a regrind. Regards, Bill.
The purpose for stoning a reamer may be to improve surface finish but it may also be to improve concentricity of the tool, alter clearance at the margin or a combination of all three. Now, you can increase clearance at the margin without altering the size of the reamer but you cannot decrease clearance without doing so. You would increase clearance to get the reamer to cut more aggressively and decrease clearance to reduce a tendency to chatter. I frequently stone reamers for various reasons and usually it works out for me. If a reamer is dull though and already cutting minimum chambers, it makes more sense to send it to the maker for a regrind. Regards, Bill.