Some help with my 300 RUM

S

Sneeze480

Guest
Been a reader of the forum for a while, lots of great information... However I am at loss for how to fix the problem I have now.

The firearm is a 300 RUM Remington 700 CDL. With a Leupold VXL 4.5-14 scope.

Out of the box with factory Remington Ammo it was grouping 2 inches at best at 100 yards. Thats what got me into reloading.

I love Nosler B.T's for hunting (I know argue with me later) so I worked up a load using 180 grain NBT's. 80 grains of IMR 4350 are pushing that bullet, with Winchester Large Magnum Primers starting the party.

Back to the range (with a led sled this time to take away some small guy vs magnum error) The gun is ruger now, all over the paper at 100 yards. :eek:

To my gunsmith I go, I have him fully bed it.... and I spend 2 hours with sandpaper taking down the stock.

At the range, same results at 100. But at 200 something wierd starts happening. I am making two groups. 20 shots later I have 12 holes in an appx 1 moa group at 12 oclock - 2" high and another 8 bullets in a slightly larger group at 3 oclock 2" right. There was no pattern I could tell for when it threw one high, or one right. They seemed to almost alternate. After each shot I played with the AR giving the gun lots of time to cool and even cleaned it after 10.

At 300, its even wierder. I start getting reasonable groups.

I have tried some other bullets, including 165 grain NBT's (all over the place)180 & 190 grain Sierra Matchkings (no change), and 180 grain Sirocco's (no change). As well as RL 25, RL 18, RL 22 with no noticable improvement.

The gun is also horrible when it comes time to de-copper. Takes me at least an hour to remove all the copper built up in the gun after 20 bullets.

Any suggestions? Or am I in the market for a barrell?

Thank you for any suggestions you might have.
James
 
300 rum

Sneeze 480: Suggestion: Clean the barrel to the maximum, then somewhere, ( your gunsmith?) find a "Hawkeye" borescope and have the bore surface examined. You may be surprised, and may not like the results. Expecting acceptable accuracy ( consistant moa ?) from a factory rifle is a crap shoot, at best. Some are very good, some fair, and others are absolute junk! Check-out the borescope video, by Dan Lilja on the 6mmBR site, involving a new, unfired factory barrel.:(
 
Are you sure you aren't flinching? It's impossible to have two separate groups at 200yds, and have them close back up at 300yds if the shooter is doing his part. The group is going to get worse down range. As far as the barrel being hard to clean that seems to be the case with most factory barrels I have encountered. Factory barrels tend to be rough. I honestly have never been able to shoot accurately off of the lead sled contration. Try setting it up on a good front rest with a rear bag, and see what ya get.
 
I don't know your backround, so I'll just tell you what I would do.

First thing, get alot of Hodgdons's Retumbo. .300 RUM really likes Retumbo, so much so, that if your gun does'nt improve with it, you have other issues.

A Rem. 700 CDL is a very light rifle for so large a cartridge, don't expect to much(Sendero weight is far more desireable). Make sure that the front of your rest is well back from the end of the forearm. The reason is, that the barrel wip will cause the barrel to slap the forearm, causing erratic shots.

You will need to set your shoulders back .002 every time you resize your cases.

Nothing wrong with Nosler BT's, but if you are having problems, work with a good match bullet in the 190 gr. range either Berger or Sierra. Get a Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL gauge and start .010 from the lands. If your rifle will shoot match bullets, then you will have an understanding of what the rifle is capable of before proceeding to hunting bullets.

If these suggestions don't help, you'll have to think about what you are going to do with your rifle.
 
1) is barrel free floated??
2)trigger pull? I've never been able to shoot 4-6 lbs,,,,,,,,,
3)as poster above said, Retumbo works really good in a 300RUm,(so does H4831SC)
4)preped brass, trim to length, uniform flashholes and primer pockets, chamfer inside & outside case mouth, then weight culled to 1.0gr,,,,,,,
5)a good rest or sand bags(no crosshair jump on empty chamber when you pull trigger), maybe a sandbag between your shoulder & stock to prevent flinch,,,,
6)OAL, (I seat one with the bolt, then backup .003 and start there and move .005 at a time until I find a sweet spot then move .001-.002)
7)find a good mentor/handloader to coach you
8)300RUM is a big BOOM, start where the book tells you and work up slow,,, I load for 5 different 300RUM's and none (2 custom,3 factory) will handle max listed loads without showing pressure signs, know them and watch for them(ie see # 7)
9)is scope good? mounted correctly, lapped and tight??
10)wind flags,, yep even with a hunting gun on the range, big bullets blow around too,, simple ribons on a stick beats nothing or watching bush blow around
11) I shoot 3 shot groups then let gun cool, I always shoot a throw away 3 shot group after cleaning too
12) what dies are you using, FL or neck or Fl/neck or FL/neck/bump?what seated die?
13)ask questions here, some of the best shooter's/handloader's in the world are right here, I'm not in either of those groups but send me a PM if you want to call and discuss 300 RUM load data
 
Mine and 4 others that friends and family shoot like 98gr. of Retumbo behind a 180gr. swift scirroccco.
 
Thanks everybody for sharing your knowledge!

I am gonna start tonight by spending some time at the reloading press. I purchased the RCBS Neck turning tool and all the assorted goodies that I need for it to work properly.
In addition I am gonna make some more ammo using Retumbo.
I also purchased a Redding Deluxe Die Set for the gun (Before I was Neck Sizing with the RCBS and Seating with a Lee)

I am pretty sure something is wrong with the gun itself. The copper mess I deal with is way worse then on any of my other factory guns.
Right now a new barrell is not at the top of my list of expenditures. However I think when I do have the cash I will take it into a gunsmith and have him borescope it. (I think I know the results in advance!)

I know that what I expect from a factory rifle is a bit foolilsh, however 1.5-2.0 MOA is just not acceptable to me from a gun that should be a dependable 500 yard Elk mangler.

To answer a few questions, yup the gun has been free floated... Spent hours with sandpaper digging out that retarded recoil lug block remington decided would be a good on a gun that gets too hot to touch after 5 rounds!.

As far as I know the scope is mounted correctly and functioning properly. The scope is an appx 400 rounds old VXL. Leupold rings and bases. I had the fitment checked by a gunsmith who went over it all.


Thanks again all!
 
before you shoot this barrel out, try a GOOD muzzle break...one that you can transpose to another barrel. For a light rifle like you have that round is very aggressive in the recoil department. It can, and will move a gun around a lot more than you realize. good luck and good shooting. Gary
 
300 rum

This seems like a familiar scenerio. Try a different scope at 100 yards. Before you commence shooting, clean throughly. (hoppes, sweets, etc.) acting as though your crosshairs are not settled. Keep in mind, this is a heavy recoiling rifle. Leupold are very good scopes but they aren't infallable. Good luck. Gibblerelk
 
Jackson~in~GA said:
Are you sure you aren't flinching? It's impossible to have two separate groups at 200yds, and have them close back up at 300yds if the shooter is doing his part. The group is going to get worse down range. As far as the barrel being hard to clean that seems to be the case with most factory barrels I have encountered. Factory barrels tend to be rough. I honestly have never been able to shoot accurately off of the lead sled contration. Try setting it up on a good front rest with a rear bag, and see what ya get.
Click to expand...

Just what I thought.

Sell it, and get a 30-06.
 
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Are both lugs fully contacting the lug abutments?

My suggestion.....Stop waisting time money and components. Send that gun to an accuracy smith have him inspect it and give you his opinion. At least it needs an accuracy package.

Personally, If that gun came to my shop I would suggest that the action be trued, rebarreled, with a brake installed. Why frustrate youself and waist time and components just to trade in a gun and do it all again with the "next" one.

My personal remington custom 300 rum is a consistent sub 1/2 min rifle. On good condition days it has done sub 1/4 min at 300 yards. Spend a little money and be happy.

Load 89.5 gr H 1000, Berger 210vld @ 3075fps.
 
For what it is worth`

Please excuse me if I overlooked something in your cleaning procedure.
After you get your barrel clean the last thing you want to do is run a patch of Kroil, Lockeze, or any other of you favorite lubricant through the barrel.
This light coat will disappear with your fowling shots and should minimize the copper in the barrel. Never shoot a dry barrel.
If you are using lockeze or something else and you are still experiencing the copper build up a visit to a Benchrest smith would be in order if you really like this rifle.
Best of luck
Centerfire
 
Well,

Back from the Range.

Seems that my problems were a combination of many many things.

Thanks too all who commented. (If I wanted a 30-06 I woulda bought one!)

First thing I did was spend some time on 6mmbr.... Read some shooting tips. Bought a snap cap and sat around dry firing my gun.

Next thing I did was a home trigger job... with trigger pull set at 3 full beer cans.

Changed to retumbo powder...

-Neck Turned

-New Brass

did some load testing with both 180 Grain NBT's and 190 Grain SMK's.

97 grains of Retumbo and 180 Grain NBT's sent three bullets almost thru the same hole. 92 grains of Retumbo and 190 Grain SMK's did the same (In fact the groups almost look identical)

I am very happy already, as this gun -and myself - could never do this before.

Next step will have me tinkering between 97-98 grains of powder... and some scope work (gonna check the tracking and level).

Thanks to all for the advice!
 
WTG Sneeze, glad you didn't take the 30-06 option.What a waste.Mine happens to like RL-25 better than the Retumbo,but thats ok with me.Also loves the 210 Bergers.:) Also have a brake on it......lol
 
Mines happy with 96grs. of RL25 under the 180 Accubond. I intended to try the 200 Accubond which everyone recommended but I got the 180s locally and never wanted to go farther for a hunting bullet. I bought mine with the intention of rebarreling to make the 358 Norma I've always wanted but made the mistake of buying a box of factory 300 RUM ammo. After all was said I now have dies, powder, brass, and a new trigger for the 300 RUM but still don't have the 358 Norma. It shot too good as it was to change.
 
I shoot this round a lot here is some info from my log book.

These were the starting loads and all proved to be hot! Reduce by at least 10% to start

300 RUM
Temp 50'
Humidity 35%

Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = H-1000 87.5rg
Velocity
High 2827
Low 2765
Avg 2797
STD. DEV. 62 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H 1.249 V 1.000
Notes = “Very close to max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened”

Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = IMR 7828 85.5gr
Velocity
High 2949
Low 2880
Avg 2919
STD. DEV 69 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H .687 V 1.105
Notes = “Very close to max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened”

Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = Ramshot MAG 96gr
Velocity
High 3106
Low 3071
Avg 3085
STD. DEV 35 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H .720 V .608
Notes = “Max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened & head stamp markings from bolt were noticed on case”

Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = Retumbo 93gr
Velocity
High 3101
Low 3019
Avg 3054
STD. DEV 82 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H .862 V .671
Notes = “Max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened & head stamp markings from bolt were noticed on case”


Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = RL-25
Velocity
High 3001
Low 2873
Avg 2912
STD. DEV 128 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H .622 V .600
Notes = “Max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened & head stamp markings from bolt were noticed on case”


Case = Rem
Bullet = A-Max 208gr
Primer = Fed 215M
Powder = IMR 4350 79gr
Velocity
High 2945
Low 2897
Avg 2916
STD. DEV 51 fps
Horizontal Vertical Group 5 Shot
H .387 V .521
Notes = “Max safe load in this rifle primers were flattened & head stamp markings from bolt were noticed on case

Range Report #1

Load Data 5-22-08
Temp 51-55 Humidity 31.5%
Christensen Arms Custom 300 Ultra Mag
Shilen Select Match Grade 1-9 Twist
Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50
5 shot group with 1 fouling
Berger 175-VLD seated .001 into the lands.
Range 108 yards

Powder Avg Velocity Vertical & Horizontal Grouping
H-1000 "88.5gr" 2902 1.340 0.710 OK!!

RL-25 "92.5gr" 3151 2.480 1.975 SUCKS!!

Retumbo "97gr" 3221 0.295 0.159
SUPER GROUP (good luck improving on this)!!!!

N-560 "84gr" 3011 1.489 0.731 OK!!

Magnum "98gr" 3215 0.631 0.699 Excellent!!

IMR-7828 "87gr" 3152 2.130 1.060 SUCKS!!

IMR-4350 "80gr" 3186 0.946 0.995 Good!!


Sierra 180 HPBT Match seated .005 from the lands

IMR-4350 "80gr" 3101 0.764 0.555 Excellent!!


Ranger Report #2

Load Data 6-6-08
Temp 67 Humidity 24%
Christensen Arms Custom 300 Ultra Mag
Shilen Select Match Grade 1-9 Twist
Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50
5 shot group with 1 fouling
Nosler AccuBond 200gr seated .006 from the lands.
Range 108 yards

Powder Avg Velocity Vertical & Horizontal Group
H-1000 "90gr" 3028 0.718 0.470 Excellent!!

RL-25 "89.5gr" 3062 1.409 1.139

Retumbo "93gr" 3074 0.820 1.320

Magnum "98gr" 3188 1.715 1.480 MAX LOAD!!!
 
300 rum

Huntinco ... fantastic information!

A few things I would add. I was speaking with some of the elite bench rest shooters in the country ... some that work with Dan Lilja. They suggested one more step in my reloading process to produce the highest level of accuracy. Drill out the flash hole to make it slightly larger. Try a few different sizes to see which one works best ... 7/64 through 9/64. I was already uniforming the primer pocket by squaring it off and deburring the inside flash hole. Drilling out the flash hole made a dramatic improvement in accuracy. Neck turning and proper overall cartridge length is also a must.

My personal recipe ... Nosler 180BT, RL-25 at 94.5
Remington Sendero SF-II in 300 RUM
 
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