Some facts & figures. I had no idea.

Phil Deese said:
I'll try to soften-up a bit. I feel like your coming over to our side!!!
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I've been trying to tell you from the beginning we should not have sides! It could be that finally you guys are starting to listen to my views and realize we all have the same goals for our country! We just sometimes disagree which road to take to get to them! I've always respected conservative views, I just have both conservative and liberal views based on the issue! I've just never been one to follow the crowd whether led by a liberal or a Conservative.

I was against the Vietnamese War, but I would slug anyone in the face that spit at a soldier. I wore an Army uniform for six months in the middle of the war and hitchhiked home every other weekend to see my girlfriend/wife! Those terrible Californians treated me great and I could get home faster with my thumb up on the highway than on an airplane. Those who mistreated soldiers were a very, very small minority of arses in front of TV cameras!

Once I did take a plane (on standby ticket) with buddy soldier and we were the only two on the regulated flight. Two pretty, young gal flight attendants put us in 1st Class and sat down and had our filet and wine dinner with us! I didn't tell my girlfriend/wife about that until just recently! I'm not that dumb!:D
 
Why don't these jive with DOD?

RStiefel said:
These are the figures from Camp Pendleton:

Since war began - 4110 deaths
" mission accomplished - 3971
" capture of Saddam - 3649
" hand over - 3251
" election 1/31/05 - 2673
unofficial wounded - 100,000
Afghanistan - 532 deaths
Iraqi deaths - 1,225,898
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Is "Camp Pendleton" not part of DOD?


"unofficial wounded" ???? what is that??? The official number was 30,182.

And you just said " I won't quote figures because no one knows how accurate they are "


Iraqi deaths -1,225,898 ????

This figure does not seem plausible, .....yet it's a precise number,............hhmmmmm

Are our "smart bombs" THAT indiscriminate?

Does this number reflect civilians or those in Saddams military?

Does this number include those that were killed by Saddam and his regime?

Provide us with more details on your source of information.........as these "figures" are quite disturbing.

There has never been a war so micro-managed as the "war on terror" where more soldiers have been apprehensive to pull the trigger than ever before.
 
LHSmith

My son happens to be stationed out of Pendleton. He is in his 2nd moth of his third tour in Afghanistan. The information provided by his base commanders PR Office is quite up to date. If you want to argue or dispute the figures, I suggest you contact Camp Pendleton. I'm not going to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
 
Therefore........

RStiefel said:
My son happens to be stationed out of Pendleton. He is in his 2nd moth of his third tour in Afghanistan. The information provided by his base commanders PR Office is quite up to date. If you want to argue or dispute the figures, I suggest you contact Camp Pendleton. I'm not going to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
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..................Pendleton MUST have been OUTSOURCED


I'm sorry to keep hounding on this,......but I read the Camp Pendleton website over and over and it just links me to the DOD...............perhaps you have a contact at the base that has privy to your stats?
 
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Not hard to do LH

We live 13 minutes from the east gate. Because my son is stationed there, it's very easy to access the base commander. They have nothing to hide. Do you really believe any military base in this country is going to provide information on a public forum such as the internet? Get real!!!
 
Or.................

RStiefel said:
We live 13 minutes from the east gate. Because my son is stationed there, it's very easy to access the base commander. They have nothing to hide. Do you really believe any military base in this country is going to provide information on a public forum such as the internet? Get real!!!
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................Do YOU really believe each military base has different casualty stats?................They DO have their own website AND they do have some information on it avaiable to the public (me).

I just question your stats and urge others to do same.
 
RStiefel said:
We live 13 minutes from the east gate. Because my son is stationed there, it's very easy to access the base commander. They have nothing to hide. Do you really believe any military base in this country is going to provide information on a public forum such as the internet? Get real!!!
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Yes they will, why...because it was the pentagon that gave us the internet. It was designed and still used by ALL Millitary bases in the world (Depots, Bases, etc), even most Forward Operating Bases. Sometimes you can access the info, sometimes you can't, depends on a lot of factors.

Heck, I was in the Army for 24+years and I've never seen accurate infomation come from a millitary base or command. Just the way it is. I seen that someone wanted to quote the number killed in Iraqi, do you know how many were non-combat related since Mr. D. wanted to bring that up?? It's around 2000. It doesn't really matter whether they died in combat or not, their dead !!!! At least dieing in combat is more honorable than a car accident, at least it is for a real soldier.


Hovis
 
Mr. D said:
I've been trying to tell you from the beginning we should not have sides! It could be that finally you guys are starting to listen to my views and realize we all have the same goals for our country! We just sometimes disagree which road to take to get to them! I've always respected conservative views, I just have both conservative and liberal views based on the issue! I've just never been one to follow the crowd whether led by a liberal or a Conservative.
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Really? You have views based on the issues? Why can't you support somebody who does the same thing?

You say you want somebody that reaches across the isle, you want somebody that works with the other side and that neither extreme is good. You support Obama, the most liberal member of the Senate. He has zero record of working with the right. He's an extremist.

Meanwhile, you won't vote for McCain. He's a very moderate senator. He's got more liberal of a record than some liberals. He has a strong record of working with the left.

You say you want one thing, but won't vote for it when you have it? Why is that? Maybe its your extreme liberal bias you try to hide.

Meanwhile, you keep calling for public election finance. You say that will end corruption in the system. Guess what, your boy, Obama wants no part of it.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06...inance-system/

If that issue was so important for you, why can't you vote for the man who shares your stated values?

If you are a man of your convictions, a man of your word, you are obligated to vote for John McCain and not Obama.
 
Actually, I'll leave this forum..............

RStiefel said:
to start trouble eh LH?
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.............for greener, NO strike that, REDDER pastures (as in conservative)



RS just a word of advice:

Our spat was always over dis-information.

May I suggest: 1. check facts before posting
2. proof-read what you post -before submitting
 
Just a coupla thoughts here...

Afghanistan is more or less cleared out - the population didn't really want the Taliban folks there anyway... And it was a generally coherent population.

Iraq, on the other hand, has been at war with itself and the surrounding area for centuries. I can believe the Iraq casualty count, because they -really- seem to like killing each other. Add in the numbers of "insurgents" who have traveled there for Jihad, and I'm just glad we're doing it over there.

I have to agree with Lieberman's thoughts that the new president will be tested. And if it is Obama, I suspect that we'll have a mixture of waffling indecision, and severe overreaction... I suspect that the harshest measures will be within the United States, probably around restrictions on travel. And they'll send stern letters overseas.
 
On the other hand if we elect McCain we know what the policies will be, that is more NeoCon militarist solutions to foreign policy. So far what Osama Bin Ladin said he planned to do to the U.S. is working perfectly. Go back and read what his spoken game plan was! He spelled it out! 9/11 was intended to put us right were we are today! If we had gone after Al Qaeda with all our resources instead of the NeoCon nation building in Iraq that Bush said he was against, things might be much better today! We played right into Bin Ladin's hands according to his own words. McCain will continue to do the same! McCain gave honorable service to his country, but his imprisonment didn't seem to allow him to learn from our mistakes in Vietnam. I don't think he is objective about how that worked out for us! He believes when a hammer doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. His message for the future is the same old Bush "Freedom" with very few common sense details. It's just possible that people in other countries don't think like us and nation building doesn't work until they start building a nation like ours. Polls have shown many Muslims don't want a democracy! They want a theocracy with their sect in charge! Many Christian Americans are not so different in their opinions about our government!!
 
Mr. D said:
On the other hand if we elect McCain we know what the policies will be, that is more NeoCon militarist solutions to foreign policy. So far what Osama Bin Ladin said he planned to do to the U.S. is working perfectly. Go back and read what his spoken game plan was! He spelled it out! 9/11 was intended to put us right were we are today! If we had gone after Al Qaeda with all our resources instead of the NeoCon nation building in Iraq that Bush said he was against, things might be much better today! We played right into Bin Ladin's hands according to his own words. McCain will continue to do the same! McCain gave honorable service to his country, but his imprisonment didn't seem to allow him to learn from our mistakes in Vietnam. I don't think he is objective about how that worked out for us! He believes when a hammer doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. His message for the future is the same old Bush "Freedom" with very few common sense details. It's just possible that people in other countries don't think like us and nation building doesn't work until they start building a nation like ours. Polls have shown many Muslims don't want a democracy! They want a theocracy with their sect in charge! Many Christian Americans are not so different in their opinions about our government!!
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The reason what Osama said is working is because he knew/knows the liberals in this country will never allow us to finish the job the way it needs to be. YOU and YOUR lib friends are playing into his hands, no me. The resurgance of the Taliban and their forces in Afghan is a direct result of letting NATO and the United Nations start making the decisions for us over there. The U.S. military has been warning of a resurgance there for the last couple of years but we are trying to keep the peace instead of making the peace, there is a big difference between the two.

Hovis
 
Psyops... Tell the enemy you LIKE what he is doing that is hurting you, and maybe he'll do something else.
 
D................................................. ...............

One thing I was taught in the Corps is the only thing the enemy understands is power!! If we are weak and he senses that you are already at a disadvantage. It's hard to make friends with someone whose ultimate goal is to kill you. I think McCain will be a strong leader...he understands how the enemies of this country think....he spent 3 or 4 years with them. Obama on the otherhand has never done anything noteworthy in his 40 some-odd years on this planet.......except show he has very poor judgement at picking friends!!

As far as the United Nations is concerned......the building needs to be leveled and occupants need to be evicted!!
 
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Phil Deese said:
It's hard to make friends with someone whose ultimate goal is to kill you.
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Phil,

That's why the Japanese fought to the death and committed suicide in the Pacific Islands. They were taught to fear and hate us too! Your approach guarantees war for eternity!

It may also be hard to make friends with countries that go half way around the world to bring you a war and occupy your country when you have never attacked them! Did I miss when Iraq attacked the U.S. with their WMD we can't find?

Maybe this country has been led down the B.S. path just like other countries. How many questions do we ask when our president asks us to attack a country that posed us no real threat! How many things did Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld tells us that turned out to be accurate? Pretty low %, but some still listen to the pro war line! The only answer they can imagine is military force. That's why many of us won't support McCain and another decade of wars. Iraq, then maybe Iran, then how about Syria then .................
 
D................................................. ..........

How soon we forget!! As I recall the UN served several resolutions that Mr. Hussin either chose to ignore or refused to obey. Mr. Bush even went to the UN to get us in there to examine. All of the democrats had been saying for 2 years before the 2000 election that Mr Hussin had WMD's...were was that evil Bush then...re-hashing old facts just seems to make the water muddier!! Remember the old saying" Repeat things long enough and people will start believing it" I think you have feel into that trap!! I guess Israel will wait for the "Do Nothing" congress before they attack Iran....don't bet on it!!

Back to the original discussion....this country needs a strong and decisive leader.....Obama doesn't fill the shoes!! An empty suit at best!!
 
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